Oct 7, 2021 13:19
2 yrs ago
48 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
Master in Translation Studies 5 yrs exp
Native in: English 
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, Portuguese to English
Les lices
French to English
Tech/Engineering
History
Relates to castle architecture
La croisade des Albigeois est terminée, mais les menaces restent nombreuses dans la région. Pour renforcer les défenses de la Cité, Saint-Louis ordonne tout d’abord la construction d’une deuxième enceinte de remparts. Vous le voyez autour de vous, DES LICES séparent désormais les deux murailles.
This will be part of an audioguide to Carcasonne.
This will be part of an audioguide to Carcasonne.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | the lices |
Pierre POUSSIN
|
| 5 +4 | The lists |
JaneD
|
| 2 +2 | (outer) bailey/ward |
SafeTex
|
| 4 | the "area enclosed by the (outer) defensive walls |
Yvonne Gallagher
|
Proposed translations
12 mins
Pierre POUSSIN
France
France
Native in French
Specializes in field
France
Fast and accurate.
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France) 
Works in: English to French, French to English, Latin to French, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
24
Selected
the lices
The term is still used for large market places inmedieval towns. "Les Lices used to be the places for duels or tournaments hence the expression "entre en lice"!
Note from asker:
| In the end 'les lices' is on all the maps and the English lang version of the website. I take it as a real name that should be retained. |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
JaneD
: Not an appropriate solution in this case.
15 mins
|
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Why?
|
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| agree |
philgoddard
: I believe this is an appropriate solution provided you add an explanatory sentence or two.
1 hr
|
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Thank you!
|
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| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: this particular context is not about "large market places in medieval towns" but the area between the walls of the castle
2 days 4 hrs
|
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Thanks!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I don't understand why apart from Mr Goddard there are not more agrees to this. Simple and obvious."
+4
2 mins
The lists
"The lists, or list field, was the arena where a jousting event was held."
Reference:
Note from asker:
| How do you add explanations or 'context' in an audioguide that is timed to the second. Also 'jousting' is just relevant to a period in history but the guide covers the entire history from 6th C BC to now |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Melanie Kathan
55 mins
|
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Thanks Melanie
|
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| agree |
Tony M
1 hr
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Thanks Tony
|
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| agree |
Samuël Buysschaert
1 hr
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Thanks Samuel
|
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| neutral |
philgoddard
: As the previous question shows, I don't believe this is an adequate answer. Also, listeners won't know what it means.
1 hr
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Of course not, but if there isn't an explanation in the next sentence, you'd have to add one (again, depending on the target audience). As always, context, context, context...!
|
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| agree |
Jean Lachaud
: How about simply calling this "jousting fields/lists"?
2 days 40 mins
|
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Thanks Jean
|
+2
8 hrs
(outer) bailey/ward
Maybe not the right answer but probably on the right track if you want a common "English" word for this type of thing.
The first reference is particularly interesting
The first reference is particularly interesting
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Adrian MM.
: with castle ward 'jousting arenas' > bailey, after tucking into a large cassoulet lunch in the area like Yours Truly, might conjure up the Old Bailey or Bailey's Irish Cream https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey_(castle)
51 mins
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Thanks Adrian but I'm not sure I was the first to suggest it.
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| agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/lice And "haha" for "Old Bailey". ;-)
1 day 12 hrs
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Thanks Nikki but I'm not sure I was the first to suggest it.
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| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: You were defintely not the first to suggest it. Suggested in the previous answer and in Dbox. I initally agreed with it as is CLEARLY seen from timing. I deleted my 1st answer as I changed my mind about using "bailey" after finding photos
1 day 20 hrs
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Hello. Bearing in mind what my first reference says, it may turn out to be if not the only correct answer, at least a feasible one. Sorry about posting it when it was mentioned in discussion but I think I zapped over the discussion by accicdent in fact.
|
5 hrs
Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Ireland
Native in English
Ireland
right word, right place. everytime
Native in: English (Variants: US, Canadian, Irish, UK)
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
11
the "area enclosed by the (outer) defensive walls
Explanation:
I think "interior space" (used in the Lonely Planet" guide) is rather poor and inaccurate as an explanation. I also agree with Phil that most people won't understand "the lists", especially on an audio file.
I agreed with the posters on the previous answer about "bailey". But the simpler "outer ward or outer enclosure" could be used on an audio. See here with photo of Carcassonne
https://www.castlesandmanorhouses.com/architecture_07_traini...
The Lists (lices) is the area between the inner and outer walls of a castle or town with two sets of defensive walls.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bailey
2: a courtyard within the external wall or between two outer walls of a castle
I don't suggest using "courtyard" here as it looks like a continuous enclosure right around the castle between the two walls here at Carcassonne
I might keep the French, in brackets, but highlight the simple explanation e.g.
All around you is the enclosed area between the inner and outer walls of the castle's defensive walls (known as "les lices")
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 days (2021-10-14 10:28:36 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
well, pity you couldn't give accurate context. You specifically said "Relates to castle architecture" and nothing about town walls or audio timing. And my ref shows "les lices" at the castle
I think "interior space" (used in the Lonely Planet" guide) is rather poor and inaccurate as an explanation. I also agree with Phil that most people won't understand "the lists", especially on an audio file.
I agreed with the posters on the previous answer about "bailey". But the simpler "outer ward or outer enclosure" could be used on an audio. See here with photo of Carcassonne
https://www.castlesandmanorhouses.com/architecture_07_traini...
The Lists (lices) is the area between the inner and outer walls of a castle or town with two sets of defensive walls.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bailey
2: a courtyard within the external wall or between two outer walls of a castle
I don't suggest using "courtyard" here as it looks like a continuous enclosure right around the castle between the two walls here at Carcassonne
I might keep the French, in brackets, but highlight the simple explanation e.g.
All around you is the enclosed area between the inner and outer walls of the castle's defensive walls (known as "les lices")
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 days (2021-10-14 10:28:36 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
well, pity you couldn't give accurate context. You specifically said "Relates to castle architecture" and nothing about town walls or audio timing. And my ref shows "les lices" at the castle
Note from asker:
| Anything that requires an explanation or brackets has to be ruled out in an audioguide timed to the second. 'Bailey is a possibiliity but it relates to much to castles specifically whereas here we are talking about essentially the old town 'intramuros'. |
Discussion
It's really hard to read the times on questions and discussions and what came first. Did you start to discuss "bailey" before or after my suggestion???
If before, then my apologies. I must have posted without first looking at the discussion.
"Whatever happens, don’t miss the Knights’ Tournaments held in the Bailey..."
So I guess it depends whether the audio guide emphasises the functional uses of the site or the architecture?