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opérateur économique
Sep 16, 2015 11:32
8 yrs ago
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French term

Soumis à aucun régime de protection

French to English Law/Patents Law (general)
In a divorce agreement of mutual consent between two parties in the Court of Grande Instance in Paris at the bottom of the document headed

CONVENTION DE DIVORCE appears two sentences.

Mariés par-devant l’officier d’état civil de la Mairie de Paris etc , le 26 Septembre 2003 sous le régime de la communauté réduite aux acquêts

Étant précisé que les époux ne sont ***soumis à aucun régime de protection***

What exactly is referred to by "regime de protection
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 not under any protective [guardianship type] measure
References
régime légal de protection du conjoint
Change log

Sep 23, 2015 02:55: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "Soumis à aucun regime de protection" to "Soumis à aucun rÉgime de protection"

Sep 23, 2015 02:55: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "Soumis à aucun rÉgime de protection" to "Soumis à aucun régime de protection"

Discussion

Nikki Scott-Despaigne Sep 17, 2015:
I simply backed what Phil and Abraham had suggested quite instinctively. ;-)
Germaine Sep 17, 2015:
Nikki a entièrement raison. Les régimes de protection s'adressent à la personne "inapte" de quelque façon. Voir, par exemple:
https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/protective-supervisio...
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Sep 16, 2015:
tutelle, curatelle et sauvegarde de justice The term "régime de protection" covers the three provisions above. A person who is under (the subject of, subject to) one of these protective measure is not in a position to provide his/her consent to mariage, to divorce, to a decision with regard to hospitalisation, in fact to a number of situations in which other individuals, free of such measures - you and I - are able to provide without any problem.

In context, it means the parties are legally fit and able to consent to their divorce.

Note that this is nothing to do with the "régime légal de protection du conjoint" (see Daryo's reference post). That is about statutory protection of one when the other dies. You will understand that it is not possible to be "soumis à aucun régimé" of that type! It applies to all marrried folk since 2002. Those provisions relate to matters such as the right to remain in the marital home for a certain period, the right to a certain share in the deceased spouse's estate etc.

Do not be misled either by the phrase "régime de la communauté réduite aux acquêts" which is about the "régime matrimonial" chosen by the spouses.
Daryo Sep 16, 2015:
guardianship doesn't sound right - not very likely; it's ways more likely to be about protecting assets.

Mental health/legal capacity is normally presumed you don't get many legal acts where the sanity of the parties is explicitly mentioned.

Important detail: WHERE exactly in the text does

Étant précisé que les époux ne sont soumis à aucun régime de protection"

appears? Just after

Mariés par-devant l’officier d’état civil de la Mairie de Paris etc , le 26 Septembre 2003 sous le régime de la communauté réduite aux acquêts

which would mean that at the time when they married they didn't agree about any additional / specific "protection" of assets.

i.e. is this at the beginning where the facts of the case are summarised?
Valentine Radha Sep 16, 2015:
Is it not protective supervision?
Catherine Earle Sep 16, 2015:
OK, so how about a simple, literal translation, "regime of protection"?
mchd Sep 16, 2015:
D'accord avec AbrahamS et philgoddard : les époux ne sont pas sous protection par décision de justice (guardianship)
Catherine Earle Sep 16, 2015:
On the other hand, since community property is held under the acquests regime, and since there are exceptions to this regime (ex., a spouse can be required to use his/her private property (not community property) to restore any loss in value of a community held acquest if he/she has caused this loss in value, the "regime of protection" may refer to private property that is protected from such action.
See https://www.educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/matrimonial-regimes-p...
AbrahamS Sep 16, 2015:
In the context of a divorce, it almost certainly means, as Phil says, guardianship or such legal protection given to people who cannot make legal decision.
http://www.eurojuris.fr/fr/particuliers/famille/divorces/art...
philgoddard Sep 16, 2015:
It can mean guardianship. I don't know if that's the case here. Or something to do with protecting their assets?

Proposed translations

+2
10 hrs
French term (edited): Soumis à aucun regime de protection
Selected

not under any protective [guardianship type] measure

http://www.vos-droits.justice.gouv.fr/tutelle-curatelle-et-s...

https://www.tutelleauquotidien.fr/Regimes-de-protection/diff...

THis is about the spouses being in full possession of their faculties and thus being fit to consent to the divorce. It means that the neither spouse was, at the relevant time, under any protective guardianship measure, such as "curatelle" or "tutelle", or "sauvegarde de justice" for that matter.

Just imagine : an individual who is no longer in full possession of their mental capacities being convinced by their ill-intentioned spouse that they should divorce, for a whole host of reasons which would be biased in favour of one party.

This is a divorce by mutual consent. Both must be in a condition to give that consent. Neither can be under any protective measure such as set out in the sources cited above.

http://blog.avocat-divorce-paris.fr/cas-divorce/consentement...

" Il est important de relever un obstacle à la possibilité de requérir un divorce par consentement mutuel. Le bénéfice d’une telle procédure est impossible dès lors que l’un des deux conjoints est placé sous un régime de protection comme la sauvegarde de justice, la curatelle ou la tutelle. Cet obstacle est en réalité une mesure de protection puisque le divorce par consentement mutuel n’est pas celui qui préservera au mieux les intérêts d’une personne placée sous un régime de protection. Il ne faut pas qu’un conjoint ait un ascendant psychologique sur l’autre, puisqu’il est ici affaire de négociation, chacun devant veiller au respect de ses propres intérêts. "


I don't think "régime légal de protection du conjoint" would make sense here. Those are statutory measures which are in place and are not ones which it is possible to avoid. There is no logic to affirming that the spouses were "soumis à aucun régime de protection". The "régime légal de protection du conjoint" applies wheteher they like it or not.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2015-09-17 00:06:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The parties were of sound mind, free of any specific legal measures to the contrary and therefore in a position to give their consent. This is standard for entering into marriage and in the divorce process too.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2015-09-17 08:57:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

When I say this

"There is no logic to affirming that the spouses were "soumis à aucun régime de protection". ...

I mean that no-one would affirm that with reference to a "régime légal de protection du conjoint" as those statutory provisions apply whether they like it or not; there is no opting out.
Peer comment(s):
agree Jeffrey Henson
7 hrs
agree mchd
7 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."

Reference comments

8 hrs
Reference:

régime légal de protection du conjoint

Comment protéger son conjoint ?

Le conjoint a longtemps été oublié des successions. Ni héritier réservataire, ni même héritier privilégié, il n'avait aucune priorité sur le patrimoine de son époux. Aujourd'hui, la loi protège le conjoint. Toutefois, il est toujours possible d'améliorer la situation de l'époux.

Depuis 2002, un régime légal de protection du conjoint est instauré. Ainsi, celui-ci bénéficie au moins d'un quart de la succession en pleine propriété.

La loi protège également le logement familial et confère au conjoint survivant un droit de jouissance du logement familial pendant une durée d'un an. Sur option, ce droit temporaire peut être converti en un droit viager d'habitation et d'usage.

En outre, par l'intermédiaire du contrat de mariage que les époux ont signé, le conjoint survivant bénéficiera ou non de la communauté de biens que les époux ont acquis pendant le mariage. Les époux peuvent à tout moment changer de régime matrimonial ou y insérer des clauses d'attribution ou de partage.

Enfin, il est possible de protéger votre conjoint par l'intermédiaire de donations, d'un testament ou d'une assurance-vie.

http://www.pap.fr/conseils/succession/comment-proteger-son-c...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral mchd : le régime de la communauté réduite aux acquêts fait office de régime de protection du conjoint dans ce contexte.
9 hrs
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