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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

un baker en porcelaine

English translation:

porcelain baker

Added to glossary by philgoddard
May 3, 2013 10:20
11 yrs ago
French term

un baker en porcelaine

French to English Other Cooking / Culinary art de la table
From a list of products in the "art de la table" section of a department store. There is no other context and no picture.

Any ideas welcome, thanks!
Proposed translations (English)
5 +3 porcelain baker
3 +1 china vegetable dish
4 porcelain serving dish
Change log

May 21, 2013 14:24: philgoddard Created KOG entry

Discussion

Rachel Fell May 3, 2013:
@Mark ;-) made me think of: http://www.kitsch.co.uk/acatalog/homepride_collectables.html
Tony M May 3, 2013:
@ Germaine Take your point about the metonymy, the exact-same point had occurred to me too, which is what made me start looking into it ;-)
Tony M May 3, 2013:
@ Asker I think that's wise, especially since, as so often, FR seems to be using the EN term with a meaning that is ever so slightly skewed from the original meaning:

EN: baker = dish that goes in the oven for baking >> oh, it goes in the oven! >> FR: baker = ovenproof dish

We see this so often with words like 'basket' (= 'trainer'), 'warnings' (= 'hazard warning indicators'), 'starter' (= 'choke'; whereas EN 'starter' = FR 'démarreur'), etc.
Vicky James (asker) May 3, 2013:
thanks everyone for trying to get your heads round this one! Personally I am leaning towards the idea of an oven-to-table dish, so as to convey the "baker" idea without being overly specific.
Mark Nathan May 3, 2013:
Germaine's remarks made me think could this be something completely different? Literally a figurine of a baker made of porcelain (pink-faced, a white apron, quaint hat etc) - which also serves to decorate the table - perhaps doubling as a vase to hold a few flowers, or (and I have seen one of these) to hold up the pie crust in a large pie dish!
Germaine May 3, 2013:
Porcelain baker Tony: oui, j'avais vu la marque. Quand je dis "appellation", je vise la métonymie (par exemple: frigidaire = réfrigérateur et pas nécessairement réfrigérateur de la marque Frigidaire (qui n'existe d'ailleurs plus).

Je gardais un petit espoir que "baker" n'était pas l'appellation en anglais, mais non. Il semble que nous soyons ici devant l'un de ces innombrables termes que les Français ne traduisent pas, mais utilisent plutôt tels quels:
http://www.thefind.com/kitchen/info-porcelain-baker
Tony M May 3, 2013:
@ Germaine No, on the site you quote, the name of the manfacturer is Deshoulières (I know their factory quite well!), and the range of 'bakers' covers several different 'patterns'; it is clear that this is just a selection of ovenproof items from across several design ranges. You just have to look at the way the site is organized to see that...
Germaine May 3, 2013:
Il est possible que "Baker" soit une marque ou une appellation (nom du porcelainier?). Voir:
http://www.cotedco.com/boutique/nature-1-porcelaine-de-limog...

Certains des Baker sont des plats de service du four à la table, d'autres, de simples assiettes ou plats de services (cf. légumier).
MoiraB May 3, 2013:
compare images French source simply seems to be using the American term "baker", which would be "baking dish" in UK. Plenty of images of "porcelain baker", which are similar to those for "porcelain baking dish". It's oven-to-table ware, so I think the term "baker" in the source has to be reflected, as Tony just mentioned, I see.
Tony M May 3, 2013:
@ W/A I agree about avoiding specifics, but it does seem as if the oven-to-table aspect is the key common point that makes it a baker, and so ought not to be left out.
writeaway May 3, 2013:
I'd now suggest just using porcelain (or china) serving dish and avoid all specifics
Carol Gullidge May 3, 2013:
baking dishes often go on the table; the food is both cooked and served in them. I have several in a variety of shapes and sizes. Porcelain baking dishes can be a good deal finer (more delicate-looking) than, say, Denby ones.
Mark Nathan May 3, 2013:
Sounds like a presentation baking dish ...from the oven to the table.
Vicky James (asker) May 3, 2013:
A baking dish as in something that goes in the oven? It doesn't look sturdy enough for that - more like a serving/presentation dish. The trouble is, this list already contains a variety of serving dishes, bowls and plates etc. so I'm reluctant to call it just a dish without knowing what it's for ;-)
writeaway May 3, 2013:
you are asking the wrong person. to me it looks like a sort of sweet dish
http://www.sellingantiques.co.uk/antiquedetail.asp?autonumbe...
Carol Gullidge May 3, 2013:
a baking dish
Vicky James (asker) May 3, 2013:
Yes, looks good - but what would you call it in English?
writeaway May 3, 2013:
maybe? http://www.porcelaine-harmonies.com/service-nymphea-29/baker...

Proposed translations

+3
3 hrs
Selected

porcelain baker

My wife sells them for a living, and that's what they're called. It's just another name for a baking dish with a lid.
Reference:

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&source=android-browser&hl=en-GB&q=porcelain+baker

Peer comment(s):
agree Mark Nathan : can't really go wrong with that
12 mins
agree GILLES MEUNIER
19 hrs
agree John Holland
3 days 32 mins
neutral Tony M : The trouble is, Phil, FR uses the word slightly differently, as many of these dishes do NOT have lids and some would not be suitable for actual 'baking'; I think it's probably safest to keep the EN term, even tho' meaning is skewed, but less common in BE
3 days 16 hrs
Sounds like you're agreeing with me!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks for this answer - seems that the porcelain element is pretty fundamental to a "baker". Once I went down this avenue I also found a ref that described a porcelain baker as an oven to table dish. Thanks everyone!"
+1
24 mins

china vegetable dish

Don't know if being a 'bkaer' automatically makes it a vegetable dish, but here's on that is, and it might be one way of achieving the differentiation you are seeking:

http://www.maisonporcelaine.com/porcelaine-blanche--2/servic...


BTW, be careful with the 'porcelain' bit, as not all porcelaine is in fact true porcelain, SOMEtimes it's just '(fine) china'

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 26 mins (2013-05-03 10:47:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The EN version of that same site calls it a baker to; it is under the section of oven-to-table-ware

http://www.maisonporcelaine.com/EN/plain-white-porcelain--2/...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2013-05-03 10:49:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In fact, more of these 'bakers' are shown in a different section of the site as 'roasting dishes' — though curiously, that's not what they call the individual items:

http://www.maisonporcelaine.com/EN/plain-white-porcelain--2/...

I think it's safe to assume that this is indeed the EN word 'baker' — could this perhaps be AE?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 30 mins (2013-05-03 10:50:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

'oven-to-table dish' might be a safer bet, since they clearly aren't only for vegetables.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 33 mins (2013-05-03 10:53:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Why not just 'ovenproof china serving dish'? That's what we used to call them way back when, before 'oven-to-table' became an in term.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 mins (2013-05-03 10:54:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Limoges is only just up the road from me, I can pop up and ask the manufacturer if you like! ;-)
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : ok with china dish (nothing wrong with porcelain either) but vegetable??? your pic may say veg, but mine doesn't (see D box)
5 mins
Yes, have just added a note above, your one looks like a vegetable dish too, but it clearly isn't specifically that.
agree Yvonne Gallagher : yes, I think the more general oven-proof or oven-to-table or even oven-safe china/porcelain dish is best
17 mins
Thanks, G2! Yes, that's another good contender.
neutral Hannah Doyle : I don't think you can put china in the oven...
1 hr
It depends what sort of china, Hannah; here I'd see it more as a generic term, not something like 'bone china' for example.
Something went wrong...
50 mins

porcelain serving dish

When I google 'baker porcelaine' I see images of what we would call 'serving dishes' in my family.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-05-03 12:34:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I see Tony, yes just saw the discussion. Then I would just add oven safe - oven safe porcelain serving dish.
Reference:

http://www.habitat.co.uk/york%20white%20porcelain%20serving%20dish/wc_fulfil_location_b/fcp-product/24650

Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : But as asker has said she is trying to differentiate between lots of different serving dishes, and it seems the 'baker' element is what makes this one special, so better not to simply leave it out.
55 mins
Something went wrong...
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