Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

no... shall constitute

French translation:

n'implique

Added to glossary by Tony M
Feb 6, 2011 20:39
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term

shall constitute

English to French Law/Patents Law: Contract(s)
I am not sure of the signification of the following sentence, which I've simplified here, keeping the essential parts:

"The parties acknowledge that nothing in this Agreement shall constitute either (1) Provider doing business in country X, or (2) an agency, representation or other legal relation of the parties hereto other than independent joint-venture counter-parties."

Thanks for your help.
Change log

Feb 7, 2011 08:09: Stéphanie Soudais changed "Field" from "Bus/Financial" to "Law/Patents" , "Field (specific)" from "Business/Commerce (general)" to "Law: Contract(s)"

Feb 11, 2011 09:40: Tony M changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/138047">Nadia Stephanov's</a> old entry - "shall constitute"" to ""n\'implique""

Discussion

Nadia Stephanov (asker) Feb 7, 2011:
@ Tony M Yes... right. You are right about this reading, it's about the only one that makes sense upon re-reading this point of the contract.
Tony M Feb 7, 2011:
@ Asker 1) No, 'the' is not necessary — it is very common in contractese to express it like this, where, for example 'Provider' has been defined in the preamble (XYZ Brewery, hereinafter referred to as 'Provider'). Imagine, for example, that the name of the Provider was actually 'John' — no def. or indef. article would be required.

2) I think you are mireading the text; my own (admittedly non-specialist!) interpretation is that anyone reading the Agreement must not take anything in the Agreement as implying that Provider is in fact doing business in country X, nor that there exists any other relationship between Provider and Company, apart from the specific arrangements in this Agreement. It's just a sort of get out saying "even if it might seem like we're doing it, we're not really" — for serious legal reasons, of course!
Nadia Stephanov (asker) Feb 7, 2011:
OK. Before the word "Provider" should stand "the" (and not "a") as the whole contract is about this particular Provider (of business). Suddenly I see some sense... la nuit porte conseil! What I understand now is that the Provider cannot do business in Country X (whilst he is doing business in Switzerland is implied) but also an agency, etc. also cannot do business in same COuntry X.
Tony M Feb 7, 2011:
No, I think it's OK I think it's just rather clumsy wording, in everyday language, one would expect 'constitute a..' followed by a countable noun, but this sort of thing is used a lot in 'contractese'
Nadia Stephanov (asker) Feb 6, 2011:
I also get a feeling something is missing Full sentence: "The parties acknowledge that nothing in this Agreement or the acts associated therewith shall constitute, jointly or severally, either (1) Provider doing business in Country X, or (2) an agency, employment, fiduciary, representation or other legal relation of the parties hereto other than independent joint-venture counter-parties."
Tony M Feb 6, 2011:
Simplified? It looks like you may have over-simplified!

On the face of it, there appears to be soemthing missing:

"nothing in this Agreement shall constitute [a commitment / undertaking / etc. to something]"

While (2) could conceivably follow on from 'constitute', 'Provider doing', though certainly not impossible, sits rather awkwardly — not least because the gerund 'doing business' really requires the possessive 'Provider's', which would at least make it read better.

Proposed translations

+2
9 hrs
English term (edited): nothing... shall constitute
Selected

n'implique

I believe this is the prescriptive use of 'shall' here, often rendered in FR by the simple present (there is no real element of future here)

However, to udnerline this, I would be inclined to add in an 'en aucun cas' somewhere

Watch out, too, for that 'nothing... shall...', and just where you place the negative(s).


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Note added at 9 hrs (2011-02-07 06:38:22 GMT)
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On second thoughts, I'm not so sure; I think I'm getting distracted by the EN 'to imply' (a close synonym of 'to constitute' here), but I'm not sure that 'ipliquer' would be quite right for that sense here?
Peer comment(s):

agree Alain Mouchel
1 hr
Merci, Alain !
agree enrico paoletti
3 hrs
Grazie, Enrico!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks for your comments, they were the most helpful."
9 mins

"ne doit pas établir"

Good evening,

I think that it means in French "ne doit pas établir".

I hope it helps.

Alexandre
Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : But I'm not sure that 'shall' here should be rendered by 'doit' — it's hard to tell without the rest of the context, but I suspect this is the prescriptive use of 'shall' in EN, often rendered by the simple present in FR (as Françoise has said).
6 mins
On second thoughts, it seems that you are right. However, indeed, we would need more context to be sure of the precise translation.
neutral Anne Bohy : According to Tony's remark, "ne saurait établir que" is probably better
11 hrs
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+4
13 mins

ne constitue/n'équivaut

ne constitue en soi ni ... ni... (dommage que le contexte soit résumé mais il semble que l'accord en soi n'équivaut ni à ... ni à ...)

Peer comment(s):

agree AllegroTrans
16 mins
merci
agree Alain Marsol
1 hr
merci
agree Germaine
3 hrs
merci
agree Maryline Pinton
11 hrs
merci
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

devait constituer

Suggestion
Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : Apart from the fact as I have already suggested that I don't think 'devoir' is appropriate here for 'shall', I can see even less justification for the past tense?
5 hrs
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5 hrs

ne concernera

a mon avis
Peer comment(s):

neutral Tony M : I have a feeling that's the wrong sense, I'd have said at best perhaps 'impliquer'?
4 hrs
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+1
13 hrs

n'établira en aucun cas

"en aucun cas" pour rendre le "shall" de renforcement, et le futur qui est généralement utilisé dans un contrat en français.

Les parties conviennent que rien... n'établira en aucun cas (ou "ne saurait établir") 1/ un fournisseur dans le pays... ou 2/ une agence,..... ni aucune autre forme de lien juridique que...
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Agree with verb, but doubtful about the tense; in the FR contracts I see, the use of pres. + fut. is quite specific, if I understand the S/T properly, I think it really is pres. here. Totally agree about 'aucun cas', I think 'saurait' is the way to go
51 mins
Thanks Tony! I agree with your choice of "ne saurait..." I'm neutral about the tense; juts that english contracts are typically at the present and french at the future (unless when translated from english...)
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