Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Russian term or phrase:
разночинные кварталы
English translation:
mixed neighbourhood
Added to glossary by
Katia Gygax
Feb 24, 2010 06:44
14 yrs ago
Russian term
разночинные кварталы
Russian to English
Social Sciences
History
Russian history
Уважаемые коллеги,
Почему-то внутренний голос не принимает intellectual quarters. Кто работал с подобной темой, нет ли чего-нибудь еще?
Контекст, собственно, не нужен. Речь о разночинных кварталах Петербурга - Лиговке. Разночинец это же не обязательно человек умственного труда, это прежде всего "недворянин", "некрестьянин", "некупец" и "неремесленник". Применительно к кварталу это смесь всех кроме дворян.
Почему-то внутренний голос не принимает intellectual quarters. Кто работал с подобной темой, нет ли чего-нибудь еще?
Контекст, собственно, не нужен. Речь о разночинных кварталах Петербурга - Лиговке. Разночинец это же не обязательно человек умственного труда, это прежде всего "недворянин", "некрестьянин", "некупец" и "неремесленник". Применительно к кварталу это смесь всех кроме дворян.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+1
1 hr
Selected
middle-class district/residential area/blocks >< bourgeous district/residential area/blocks
1) one cannot define a social class exclusively through what it is not: "raznochinzy" were the newly emerging Russian middle class, that is, strictly speaking, the bourgeoisie.
2) "Quartaly" are, basically, "blocks", district, etc., but by no means "quarters". Quarters is not really a translation but a transliteration
2) "Quartaly" are, basically, "blocks", district, etc., but by no means "quarters". Quarters is not really a translation but a transliteration
Note from asker:
Спасибо, Михаил. Поэтому я и спрашиваю, что это вне моей компетенции. Нужно простое и недвусмысленное название. Насчет кварталов все поняла и приняла, спасибо. С разночинцами мне пока не все ясно. По сути это вперемешку третье сословие и нарождающийся пролетариат умственного труда. Слово-то вначале означало нечто близкое к деклассированному элементу. |
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Alistair Gainey
: The first part sounds ok to me (assuming terms like "middle-class" and "bourgeois" aren't anachronistic). But I'm not sure about your opposition to "quarter" though. A quarter, in this sense, is a district, lived in mainly by a certain group of people.
24 mins
|
sure, like Latin Quarter as opposed to Schmato District. Okay, I guess I've been to radical. But not "quarterS" though! That's a no–no
|
|
neutral |
Jim Tucker (X)
: Decidedly more radical than the bourgeoisie, the raz. were dissatisfied, intellectual advocates of change. "Middle-class" yes. // B and MC not entirely synonyms; B has social and behavioral overtones.
1 hr
|
Nah,Jim,that's a romantic reading of r.ch by such radical r.ch as Chernyshevskij&Dobroliubov.Most were office clerks,various professionals etc.,abiding in political alienation.MCs are forever shy of the lable "bourgeoisie" but that's what they(we!!!) are.
|
|
agree |
Oleksandr Kupriyanchuk
: NO quarters, "bourgeous","middle class"(unless an appropriate explanation is given to the LATTER, for instance, as a footnote).The middle class actually emerged in the West as a result of the Ind.Revolution.The "middle class" a bit later in Russia?I doubt
4 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Дай Вам Бог здоровья. "
+4
22 mins
Raznochintsy quarters
Why not?
Note from asker:
Thank you. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Alistair Gainey
: OK, you got there first :)
0 min
|
Thank you! Probably, false start? :-)
|
|
agree |
Vanda Nissen
32 mins
|
Thank you!
|
|
agree |
Radwan Rahman
1 hr
|
Thank you!
|
|
agree |
Oleksandr Kupriyanchuk
: R. (residential) areas / districts / EVEN "neighbourhoods" (given the location at that time).
5 hrs
|
Благодарю! Я все же склонен к Quarter (sing.) по аналогии с Латинским Кварталом. Хотя зависит от стилистики всего текста.
|
+2
22 mins
Raznochintsy quarters
This depends a little on your audience, but I would keep the Russian term and explain it in a footnote, if possible. Wikipedia has an entry for it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raznochintsy), it's also explained at http://www.answers.com/topic/raznochintsy, and there are various other examples of its use in English-language sites on the internet. I don't know what the majority of historians would do, but this does seem to be an option.
Note from asker:
Thank you very much. What would you say of simply "commons quaters"? It is a historical note but it is a part of an advertising booklet. I doubt that real estate agents would enjoy wikipedia reading. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Alieksei Seniukovich
4 hrs
|
agree |
Oleksandr Kupriyanchuk
: R. [residential] areas / districts / EVEN "neighbourhoods" (given rather a remote location at that time).
5 hrs
|
7 hrs
nearly-middle-class (quasi-middle-class) neighbourhoods
Oh!
Something like that.
At least in the tone, IMHO.
Is'nt that the way ?..
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2010-02-24 14:10:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Как варианты:
" lower middle class... "
" pre-middle-class... "
Something like that.
At least in the tone, IMHO.
Is'nt that the way ?..
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2010-02-24 14:10:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Как варианты:
" lower middle class... "
" pre-middle-class... "
8 hrs
a neighborhood of social outsiders
This neighborhood was inhabited by outsiders, poor, sometimes educated people lacking officially acceptable social status.
Без описания, похоже, не обойтись. Я бы так выкрутил.
Без описания, похоже, не обойтись. Я бы так выкрутил.
Discussion
We have to agree with Michael that the bookletness makes a big difference.
However, тогда еще окраинная питерская Лиговка is neither "sociological melting pot" nor simply "mixed neighbourhood a la Brooklyn".
IMHO, it should be rather something in line with
"the non-noble pre-middle-class neighbourhoods".
R. neighbourhoods of of St. Petersburg
-- given rather a remote location of these "Blocks-but-not-Quarters" at that time.