Nov 4, 2010 11:02
13 yrs ago
Latin term
Chiara Zorda (X)
Labor voluptasque dissimillima natura,societate quadam inter se naturali sunt iu
Latin to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
Latin Quote
I need to translate in English this quote from Titus Livius. It should be from Ad Urbe Condita, Book 5.
It's written on a sundial...
It's written on a sundial...
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Nov 4, 2010 11:13: Marie-Hélène Hayles changed "Language pair" from "Italian to English" to "Latin to English"
Proposed translations
12 hrs
Selected
Work and pleasure, though of dissimilar nature, have become joined together...
....by a sort of natural association."
Please see discussion above, esp. on the appropriateness of this quote for a sundial.
Might have been a profound philosophical statement about contrasting meanings of 'natura,' but since it's Livy I think we can assume it's just klutzy writing.
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Note added at 14 hrs (2010-11-05 01:10:35 GMT)
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Note also that there are several ways of saying "X and Y" in Latin, and this one "X Yque" generally implies a particular closeness between the elements: these are things that belong together, or function together to form a whole.
Please see discussion above, esp. on the appropriateness of this quote for a sundial.
Might have been a profound philosophical statement about contrasting meanings of 'natura,' but since it's Livy I think we can assume it's just klutzy writing.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2010-11-05 01:10:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Note also that there are several ways of saying "X and Y" in Latin, and this one "X Yque" generally implies a particular closeness between the elements: these are things that belong together, or function together to form a whole.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you very much Jim."
21 hrs
Luis Antonio de Larrauri
Specializes in field
Legal, business, literature specialized
Native in: Spanish
Works in: English to Spanish, French to Spanish, Latin to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Although toil and pleasure have a different nature, they form together a sort of natural community
In classical Latin, "labor" was not equivalent to work. It gave the idea of distress, fatigue, hardship, toil... I mean, the translation should stress somehow the idea of the fatigue caused by work, so, at least, it should say "Hard work". This way the contrast with "pleasure" is clearer.
The sense of "labor" as "work" came later, with Ecclesiastic Latin. Think of the "Ora et labora", i.e., "pray and work", of St Benedict's Rule
The sense of "labor" as "work" came later, with Ecclesiastic Latin. Think of the "Ora et labora", i.e., "pray and work", of St Benedict's Rule
Note from asker:
| THANK YOU LUIS ANTONIO. VERY USEFUL SUGGESTION AND EXPLANATION. |
Discussion
Your rendering is very apt and even more precise than the one of kaydee's link, though that one too is of course quite nice.
This passage is a little bit clearer if you look at the preceding sentence:
nec opera sine emolumento nec emolumentum ferme sine inpensa opera est. Labor voluptasque....
I would translate the 2 sentences like this:
"There is neither work without reward, nor reward, generally, without work expended. Work and pleasure, though dissimilar by nature, have become joined together by a sort of natural association."
I makes a certain sense to put this on a sundial, because then all the hours of the day -- work and pleasure -- are accounted for.
(Note to asker: that should be AB urbe condita, not ad.)
But I would like to know how you or OLD get "purpose" in this quote - or generally - from "naturalis".
If you have more to say here, perhaps we should continue this conversation privately.
@ Chiara: I'm happy to hear that.
@ Stephen: couldn't really go into such detail, for my Latin has become rather rusty (hence the link, and not a first-hand translation!).
@Roland: sorry, it was probably a mistake copyng and pasting the text. Thanks anyway
Putting in a quotation like this it would be good to write out completely. - At the end it is not "iu" but "iuncta". And that is a difference.