Harry Oikawa Mar 17, 2013:

Do not be dragged by the Japanese word 接点 In English, when you say "relay" it denote a mechanical relay with contact, hence 有接点, in the first place. If you want to categorically say 無接点リレー, you have to say "contactless relay" or more comonnly "solid-state relay." If English speaking person doesn't know about this, s/he should not take this exam.

If you want to be absolutely precise for both Japanese wording and English meaning, you can say "sequence control circuit with mechanical relay" or more commonly "mechanical relay logic circuit." That said, it is getting redundant like 馬から落馬.

BTW, better not mix up "sequence" with "sequential" because "sequential control" is more commonly used in the field of advanced process control.

OneTa (asker) Mar 17, 2013:

As shown in the URL provided by cinefil-san, some relays may have no contacts. Is there a way to express the concept just using "contact"?

Marc Brunet Mar 16, 2013:

Thank you for these thoughful considerations... Thank you , Harry, for your views re: Q2. I now agree with your last point on the reason for the selection you made, based on the focus arising from the context received. With best regards.

Harry Oikawa Mar 15, 2013:

Hello mmb42, I agree with your view that we Japanese use the short form language in much many occasions. In technical writing, this tendency of ours would give Western readers an awkward impression. They might think that the writer would have inadequate knowledge to discuss about the subject matters. Therefore I believe that the translator should restore omitted words where appropriate. This is the answer to your second question.

If no context had been given, I would have suggested to use "relay logic circuit (for sequence control)" for 有接点シーケンス（制御）回路. I believe it is more commonly used in English speaking world than "relay sequence circuit" or "relay sequence control circuit."

However, the full context in the given URL gave me an impression that important element in this sentence is not whether the circuit is for the control purpose or not. It is more important to tell that the test takers has to deal with a circuit made of relay and don't need to worry about other type of circuits like the solid-state logic circuit or the PLC. Hence I came up with the "relay sequence circuit."

Marc Brunet Mar 14, 2013:

with / without "control' as qualifier? (2/2) ...with different functions? ( I can already hear you say:

"yes and no!" or "it all depends...". OK, if so, please, specify 'when Yes' and 'when No').

Our first problem as translators for English readers is therefore to determine what the writer

intended to convey with that phrase (relay sequence circuit): [=control circuit]? or

[=NOT control circuit]?
Our next problem is one of localisation: what are the expectations of the Western reader,

regarding the degree of precision to be used when referring to that object in his language and

in the type of written communication he read it? Just as in Japanese, on the same

communication factors but based on different conventions and tolerances.
If so:

Q2: Would you approve/tolerate a ProZ translator restoring the qualifier ('Control' in this case)

if and when perceived as intended and implied in Japanese, in order to comply with

the more strict and perhaps exhaustive descriptive conventions which the Western reader

uses as his frame of reference to ascertain the sense of what he is reading?


Thank you Harry-san, for your much sought after guidance.

Marc Brunet Mar 14, 2013:

with / without "control' as qualifier?(1/2) Dear Harry,

Thank you for your reply re: with/without 'Control' in the noun phrase you translated.
We non native speakers will always value well qualified native opinions like yours, Harry-san, on the use of your language in various communication contexts. One nagging issue that occurs again and again in the technical japanese writing material for in-house/in-group consumption we handle occasionally is what appears to us/some of us as the omission of qualifiers when those are so obvious from the written context that they can be dropped as implied without any loss of meaning and with a gain communication speed/space.
We sense that Japanese people, especially engineers, are very practical, communicate more often with in-group than out-group, which presumably must lead to such shorcuts that function very well. (as well as fractional banking not gone wild, I might say, :-) ).

Q1: Now, this is a Western assumption, but as a native speaker, what is your view on this communicative tendency? Does "relay sequence circuit" and "relay sequence control circuit" refer to the same thing or to systems with different functions? (continued...)