Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

Young colts will canter.

English answer:

Youth will have its fling.

Added to glossary by Oliver Simões
Jul 19, 2023 15:32
10 mos ago
38 viewers *
English term

Young colts will canter.

English Other Idioms / Maxims / Sayings dictionary of idioms
No context other than an entry in a Russian-English dictionary of idioms, which equates "Young colts will canter" with "Boys will be boys". Are they synonymous? Also, is this expression mostly British?
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Lara Barnett

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Discussion

Björn Vrooman Jul 22, 2023:
@Oliver I apologize; this week was a bit chaotic. Just a couple of notes:

1) I thought Mark's second link was also a great find. Yes, the paper was written 30 years ago, but it includes a comprehensive list of English proverbs graded according to Concreteness, Imagery, Goodness, and Familiarity. It's a worthwhile read.

It also shows that even 30 years ago, familiarity with a proverb such as "Young colts will canter" was at 1.77--in line with phrases such as "What you have to say will keep cold, I warrant" (I mean...huh?).

2) The Russian dictionary was originally published in 1970--more than 50 years ago (during the Cold War, no less) so I'd have been surprised if it didn't contain multiple errors or outdated terms. As Yvonne said, it should've really been updated since then.

3) The same charge could also be leveled at the following English-Italian dictionary, which was first published in 2001 and then revised in 2011: "A Dictionary of English and Italian Equivalent Proverbs," by T. Flonta. It makes no mention of the phrase being archaic.

To all of you, enjoy your weekend!
Oliver Simões (asker) Jul 20, 2023:
Youth will have its fling As per one of Alison's references, "young colts will canter" is a Scottish proverb meaning "the youth will have its fling". I found this quote by a British general: "... The absence of the men of experience from among revolutionary officials leads to many false moves that wiser heads would have avoided; but youth will have its fling, and in all ages and in all civilizations there is always a permanent undercurrent of revolution on the part of the young men who know everything, against the older men who are considered out-of-date and incapable of understanding their brilliant schemes of reform” (emphasis added). https://rb.gy/mhc8b

GT translated it as "a juventude terá sua aventura", which means "the youth will have its adventure" in back translation.

Going a little further, I googled "the youth have..." in Portuguese (just for kicks) and came up with "a juventude tem muita energia" (the youth have a lot of energy), among other things. This seems to be in line with the "gamboling" explanation given by Yvonne. I found this post on Facebook sort of interesting: "Youth have a lot of energy, dynamism, are creative and full of life..." Any thoughts or comments?
José Patrício Jul 20, 2023:
But 'lambs gambolling in a field' has the same meaning, a lttle more abstract, but it has.
Nevertheless 'Boys will be boys' translate better the idea 'colts jump'
Oliver Simões (asker) Jul 19, 2023:
Björn et al. Thank you for your input and especially for Björn's extensive list of references. Very helpful. I was able to verify the usage in Christine Ammer's "Cool Cats, Top Dogs, and Other Beastly Expressions". I came across her name multiple times on the Farlex (Free Dictionary) website. She's quoted quite often. She seems to be very knowledgeable about idiomatic usage. Here's what she says:

"Colts frequently are playful and frolicsome, whence the adjective coltish for similar human behavior, and the saying Young colts will canter, meaning that children will act like children." https://archive.org/details/coolcatstopdogso00amme/page/2/mo...

I guess I'll have to dig in further to find out other uses of this expression. If anyone has access to the "Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs" (mentioned by Mark Robertson), I appreciate it if you could look it up for me. I searched the "Oxford Dictionary of Proverbs", but it's not listed. Thank you all.
philgoddard Jul 19, 2023:
It may have been used occasionally in the past, but it's not a current idiom and people won't understand it.
Björn Vrooman Jul 19, 2023:
In support of Mark's statement The expression may be rare, but it appears in sources other than the one cited. You just need to look on Google Books. It's featured in:

"English Proverb Poems" by Alexander Macfie (self-published, no date given).

"The Penguin Dictionary of Proverbs" by Rosalind Fergusson and Jonathan Law, published in 2000.

"New Lugano Review," published in 1980 (in California).

"Animal Folklore: From Black Cats to White Horses" by Edward Dolan, published in 1992.

"Cool Cats, Top Dogs, and Other Beastly Expressions" by Christine Ammer, published in 1999.

"Target Risk 2: A New Psychology of Safety and Health" by Gerald J.S. Wilde, published in 2001.

It is also part of P. Lovesey's novel (published in 1993) "Bertie and the Crime of Passion": "Young colts will canter, as the saying goes." (Note: Didn't see Mark had already posted this one.)

As far as I can tell, all of those authors are ENS (though there doesn't seem to be a UK-US divide on the issue), which means it's unlikely to be a translation.

Best
Mark Robertson Jul 19, 2023:
@ Oliver I too have never heard this expression before. Given that the source is a Russian - English Dictionary of Proverbs and Sayings, I assumed that the expression is Russian. However the Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs apparently includes "Young colts will canter" on page 927. Although I have not been able to confirm this.
https://www.abdn.ac.uk/sll/documents/Proverbs_in_ODEP.docx
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/BF03204446.pdf

However, the expression does occur in a novel entitled Bertie and the Crime of Passion, by Peter Lovesey, published by Hachette Digital in London in 1993.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MI8Pyd8_YqwC&pg=PT152&lp...
philgoddard Jul 19, 2023:
It's funny that this spurious translation is cited as an example of how good the dictionary is.
http://www.amazon.com/Russian-English-Dictionary-Proverbs-Sa...
Oliver Simões (asker) Jul 19, 2023:
AlegroTrans & Helena, Thank you for your feedback.
Helena Chavarria Jul 19, 2023:
I agree with AllegroTrans I'm British but I've never heard the expression 'Young colts will canter', though it's easy to understand.
AllegroTrans Jul 19, 2023:
Asker I have never seen or heard the expression "young colts will canter" in GB and the only refs I can find on the web are to the Russian-English dictionary that you refer to. This dictionary wrongly claims that "boys will be boys" is the equivalent US expression, but it is in fact a widely-used expression in GB and the En-speaking world. Morale: don't believe everything you read in a Russian dictionary.

Responses

+3
19 hrs
Selected

youth will have its fling

youth will have its fling - young people should be forgiven for their excesses or improprieties

It would appear to be a Scottish proverb.

Here is the entry from the 1949 edition of the Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs, appearing on p. 608 (the reference to p. 927 relates to the 1970 edition, which is not available for free). It quotes the earliest example appearing in Saint Ronan’s Well by Sir Walter Scott.

Young colts will canter.
1824 Scott St. Ronan's I ‘They were daft callants,’ 1 she said, . . ; ‘a young cowt will canter, be it up hill or down’. [1 youths.]
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.227228/page/n6...

See also:
Proverbs, Proverbial Expressions, and Popular Rhymes of Scotland by Andrew Cheviot

A YOUNG cowte will canter be it uphill or down.
"St Ronan's Well," ch. I. i.e., youth will have its fling at any cost.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XsC6Dy8A2d4C&newbks=1&ne...

and

Thesaurus of Traditional English Metaphors By P.R. Wilkinson

a young cowte [colt] will canter be it uphill or down [Sc] Youth will have its fling at any cost.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t4wZOj46HBoC&pg=PT199&lp...

Note from asker:
Thank you. I just a found a quote by a British general who uses this term. I'll post on the DB.
Peer comment(s):

agree Yvonne Gallagher : of course every farm would have had horses and colts in the old days so would have been more familiar with the behaviour // not contemporary, but heard this expression in use when I was young, a long time ago!
43 mins
Thanks, Yvonne
agree AllegroTrans : Yes, but clearly not a contemporary expression
6 hrs
Thanks
agree Björn Vrooman : Aye! Didn't even occur to me to look for different spellings; guess, I should have after Tony's comment. Also used in the plural form cowtes at https://www.gutenberg.org/files/26150/26150-h/26150-h.htm
1 day 23 hrs
Thanks, Björn. (Only just noticed your post as ProZ notifications are no longer working for me)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you, Alison."
+1
5 hrs

Boys will be boys

Young colts will canter” (British) and “Boys will be boys” (American). - https://www.google.com/search?q=proverb: Young colts will ca...
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Yes, although 'colts will canter' is VERY archaic, even in EN-GB
36 mins
thanks
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : Since when did "boys will be boys" become US English only?//What? Care to explain?
2 hrs
But 'lambs gambolling in a field' has the same meaning, a lttle more abstract, but it has.
neutral philgoddard : I agree with Yvonne.
7 hrs
It doesn't matter. The origin is the most important
neutral AllegroTrans : I agree with Yvonne
20 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

8 hrs
Reference:

boys will be boys

https://powertofly.com/up/boys-will-be-boys

Not such a cutesy expression?

Like other natives, I've never heard the expression "colts will canter" but it fits more with "lambs gambolling in a field" I think as a cutesy expression rather than with "boys will be boys". The latter expression, while seemingly cutesy too, has a negative connotation

Colts will canter fits more with lambs gambolling in a field I think

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Note added at 8 hrs (2023-07-19 23:57:50 GMT)
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Sorry, meant to delete last repeated line.
Note from asker:
Thankyou, Yvonne. Very helpful.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree AllegroTrans : Despite the differences in these expressions I suppose they could be used synonymously at a stretch but I don't think a Russian dictionary should be taken as the authority on this
17 hrs
Quite a stretch! I wouldn't rely on it. That dictionary clearly needs to be updated//absolutely not! Nor non-natives for that matter
Something went wrong...
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