Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
Young colts will canter.
English answer:
Youth will have its fling.
English term
Young colts will canter.
3 +3 | youth will have its fling | Alison MacG |
3 +1 | Boys will be boys | José Patrício |
boys will be boys | Yvonne Gallagher |
Non-PRO (1): Lara Barnett
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Responses
youth will have its fling
It would appear to be a Scottish proverb.
Here is the entry from the 1949 edition of the Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs, appearing on p. 608 (the reference to p. 927 relates to the 1970 edition, which is not available for free). It quotes the earliest example appearing in Saint Ronan’s Well by Sir Walter Scott.
Young colts will canter.
1824 Scott St. Ronan's I ‘They were daft callants,’ 1 she said, . . ; ‘a young cowt will canter, be it up hill or down’. [1 youths.]
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.227228/page/n6...
See also:
Proverbs, Proverbial Expressions, and Popular Rhymes of Scotland by Andrew Cheviot
A YOUNG cowte will canter be it uphill or down.
"St Ronan's Well," ch. I. i.e., youth will have its fling at any cost.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XsC6Dy8A2d4C&newbks=1&ne...
and
Thesaurus of Traditional English Metaphors By P.R. Wilkinson
a young cowte [colt] will canter be it uphill or down [Sc] Youth will have its fling at any cost.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=t4wZOj46HBoC&pg=PT199&lp...
Thank you. I just a found a quote by a British general who uses this term. I'll post on the DB. |
agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: of course every farm would have had horses and colts in the old days so would have been more familiar with the behaviour // not contemporary, but heard this expression in use when I was young, a long time ago!
43 mins
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Thanks, Yvonne
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agree |
AllegroTrans
: Yes, but clearly not a contemporary expression
6 hrs
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Thanks
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agree |
Björn Vrooman
: Aye! Didn't even occur to me to look for different spellings; guess, I should have after Tony's comment. Also used in the plural form cowtes at https://www.gutenberg.org/files/26150/26150-h/26150-h.htm
1 day 23 hrs
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Thanks, Björn. (Only just noticed your post as ProZ notifications are no longer working for me)
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Boys will be boys
agree |
Tony M
: Yes, although 'colts will canter' is VERY archaic, even in EN-GB
36 mins
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thanks
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neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: Since when did "boys will be boys" become US English only?//What? Care to explain?
2 hrs
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But 'lambs gambolling in a field' has the same meaning, a lttle more abstract, but it has.
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neutral |
philgoddard
: I agree with Yvonne.
7 hrs
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It doesn't matter. The origin is the most important
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neutral |
AllegroTrans
: I agree with Yvonne
20 hrs
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Reference comments
boys will be boys
Not such a cutesy expression?
Like other natives, I've never heard the expression "colts will canter" but it fits more with "lambs gambolling in a field" I think as a cutesy expression rather than with "boys will be boys". The latter expression, while seemingly cutesy too, has a negative connotation
Colts will canter fits more with lambs gambolling in a field I think
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Note added at 8 hrs (2023-07-19 23:57:50 GMT)
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Sorry, meant to delete last repeated line.
Thankyou, Yvonne. Very helpful. |
agree |
AllegroTrans
: Despite the differences in these expressions I suppose they could be used synonymously at a stretch but I don't think a Russian dictionary should be taken as the authority on this
17 hrs
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Quite a stretch! I wouldn't rely on it. That dictionary clearly needs to be updated//absolutely not! Nor non-natives for that matter
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Discussion
1) I thought Mark's second link was also a great find. Yes, the paper was written 30 years ago, but it includes a comprehensive list of English proverbs graded according to Concreteness, Imagery, Goodness, and Familiarity. It's a worthwhile read.
It also shows that even 30 years ago, familiarity with a proverb such as "Young colts will canter" was at 1.77--in line with phrases such as "What you have to say will keep cold, I warrant" (I mean...huh?).
2) The Russian dictionary was originally published in 1970--more than 50 years ago (during the Cold War, no less) so I'd have been surprised if it didn't contain multiple errors or outdated terms. As Yvonne said, it should've really been updated since then.
3) The same charge could also be leveled at the following English-Italian dictionary, which was first published in 2001 and then revised in 2011: "A Dictionary of English and Italian Equivalent Proverbs," by T. Flonta. It makes no mention of the phrase being archaic.
To all of you, enjoy your weekend!
GT translated it as "a juventude terá sua aventura", which means "the youth will have its adventure" in back translation.
Going a little further, I googled "the youth have..." in Portuguese (just for kicks) and came up with "a juventude tem muita energia" (the youth have a lot of energy), among other things. This seems to be in line with the "gamboling" explanation given by Yvonne. I found this post on Facebook sort of interesting: "Youth have a lot of energy, dynamism, are creative and full of life..." Any thoughts or comments?
Nevertheless 'Boys will be boys' translate better the idea 'colts jump'
"Colts frequently are playful and frolicsome, whence the adjective coltish for similar human behavior, and the saying Young colts will canter, meaning that children will act like children." https://archive.org/details/coolcatstopdogso00amme/page/2/mo...
I guess I'll have to dig in further to find out other uses of this expression. If anyone has access to the "Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs" (mentioned by Mark Robertson), I appreciate it if you could look it up for me. I searched the "Oxford Dictionary of Proverbs", but it's not listed. Thank you all.
"English Proverb Poems" by Alexander Macfie (self-published, no date given).
"The Penguin Dictionary of Proverbs" by Rosalind Fergusson and Jonathan Law, published in 2000.
"New Lugano Review," published in 1980 (in California).
"Animal Folklore: From Black Cats to White Horses" by Edward Dolan, published in 1992.
"Cool Cats, Top Dogs, and Other Beastly Expressions" by Christine Ammer, published in 1999.
"Target Risk 2: A New Psychology of Safety and Health" by Gerald J.S. Wilde, published in 2001.
It is also part of P. Lovesey's novel (published in 1993) "Bertie and the Crime of Passion": "Young colts will canter, as the saying goes." (Note: Didn't see Mark had already posted this one.)
As far as I can tell, all of those authors are ENS (though there doesn't seem to be a UK-US divide on the issue), which means it's unlikely to be a translation.
Best
https://www.abdn.ac.uk/sll/documents/Proverbs_in_ODEP.docx
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/BF03204446.pdf
However, the expression does occur in a novel entitled Bertie and the Crime of Passion, by Peter Lovesey, published by Hachette Digital in London in 1993.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MI8Pyd8_YqwC&pg=PT152&lp...
http://www.amazon.com/Russian-English-Dictionary-Proverbs-Sa...