Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
unredeemed Greek communities
French translation:
communautés grecques non-rachetées
Added to glossary by
B D Finch
Dec 15, 2018 09:48
5 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term
Belgium
English/Italian into French Translator
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France)
Works in: English to French, Italian to French, French
unredeemed Greek communities
English to French
Other
History
Post Première Guerre mondiale
Dans le contexte de l'après Première Guerre mondiale:
"The defeat of the Ottoman Turks presented Greece with a new chance to realize the nation’s 'Great Idea', the political programme that promoted the expansion of the Greek state so as to include all communities considered Greek in the Ottoman Empire. As a result, Greece led a military campaign into Anatolia so as to liberate the ‘unredeemed Greek communities’"
J'ai trouvé l'expression quasi telle quelle dans cet article:
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/greece/1925-10-01/un...
et dans des livres (google books) qui traitent bien de cette période.
Je penche fortement pour "communautés grecques irrédentistes", il me semble que dans ce terme, qui vient de l'italien irredento (= non libéré, non racheté) on retrouve le sens d'unredeemed, mais le terme "irredentism" existe en anglais... d'où mon doute.
Qu'en pensez-vous?
"The defeat of the Ottoman Turks presented Greece with a new chance to realize the nation’s 'Great Idea', the political programme that promoted the expansion of the Greek state so as to include all communities considered Greek in the Ottoman Empire. As a result, Greece led a military campaign into Anatolia so as to liberate the ‘unredeemed Greek communities’"
J'ai trouvé l'expression quasi telle quelle dans cet article:
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/greece/1925-10-01/un...
et dans des livres (google books) qui traitent bien de cette période.
Je penche fortement pour "communautés grecques irrédentistes", il me semble que dans ce terme, qui vient de l'italien irredento (= non libéré, non racheté) on retrouve le sens d'unredeemed, mais le terme "irredentism" existe en anglais... d'où mon doute.
Qu'en pensez-vous?
Proposed translations
(French)
| 4 | communautés grecques non-rachetées |
B D Finch
|
Change log
Dec 20, 2018 11:24: B D Finch Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
2 hrs
Selected
communautés grecques non-rachetées
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrédentisme
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irredentism
Irredentism is any political or popular movement that seeks to claim/reclaim and occupy a land that the movement's members consider to be a "lost" (or "unredeemed") territory from their nation's past. ... Irredentism may operate as a device for a government to redirect their citizens' discontent against outsiders.
It is possible that the author avoided the term "irredentism" because of its use by Italian and other fascisms. However, it seems more likely that the reason was purely a question of syntax. The irredentists would be the redeemers, not the redeemeed, unless the communities in question were, themselves, struggling to become part of Greece. However, even then, the term "unredeemed" doesn't say that the communities that were unredeemed were irridentist. So, the text only tells us that the Greek state was irredentist.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2018-12-15 13:11:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@Asker
"Unredeemed" sounds odd to my English ears, as I associate the term more with what religious people might think about those (such as myself) who aren't saved by the Word. ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irredentism
Irredentism is any political or popular movement that seeks to claim/reclaim and occupy a land that the movement's members consider to be a "lost" (or "unredeemed") territory from their nation's past. ... Irredentism may operate as a device for a government to redirect their citizens' discontent against outsiders.
It is possible that the author avoided the term "irredentism" because of its use by Italian and other fascisms. However, it seems more likely that the reason was purely a question of syntax. The irredentists would be the redeemers, not the redeemeed, unless the communities in question were, themselves, struggling to become part of Greece. However, even then, the term "unredeemed" doesn't say that the communities that were unredeemed were irridentist. So, the text only tells us that the Greek state was irredentist.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2018-12-15 13:11:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
@Asker
"Unredeemed" sounds odd to my English ears, as I associate the term more with what religious people might think about those (such as myself) who aren't saved by the Word. ;)
Note from asker:
| J'ai effectivement trouvé quelques occurrences dans 2-3 articles parlant de Grecs "non-rachetés" dans ce contexte. "Si l’on adopte une position en accord avec l’idéologie nationale dominante, la question paraît simple : ceux qui vivent dans des territoires où l’État grec était tenu pour État ancestral (à savoir l’Empire ottoman) étaient « non-rachetés » ; ceux qui vivaient ailleurs faisaient partie de la diaspora. " Ça sonne bizarre à mon oreille francophone, pour tout dire, mais j'imagine que c'est en effet plus proche du sens du texte source. |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
GILLES MEUNIER
: non-rachetées, c'est incorrect en français un tiret entre un nom et un verbe. Désolé, c'est un verbe et quand bien même ça serait un adjectif, ça ne changerait pas le problème....
10 mins
|
|
It's an adjective, not a verb.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Discussion
"La loi ottomane ne reconnaissait que deux types d'hommes : les croyants (les musulmans) et les infidèles. Ces derniers n'avaient pas le droit de porter les armes et devaient donc « racheter » leur service militaire en payant une capitation : l’haraç."
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Idée
Either way, it seems best to retain the word closest to "unredeemed" in translation, because of the risk of changing the meaning by substituting another.
The major problem with "irrédentiste" is that it can only apply to players who actively wanted to incorporate those communities into Greece. The adjective "unredeemed" doesn't say that the communities in question were agitating or fighting to be incorporated into Greece, just that they hadn't been incorporated yet. Of course, they might well have been irredentist communities, but the text doesn't say so.