Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
green monster of right and wrong
English answer:
The green monster of right and wrong
Added to glossary by
VICTOR ORNGU
Dec 6, 2023 23:25
5 mos ago
61 viewers *
English term
green monster of right and wrong
English
Art/Literary
Cinema, Film, TV, Drama
Hello everyone,
From the 1964 movie Mission to Venice.
Context: A woman asked Michael, the protagonist, to help her find her missing husband Paul Trégard. She talked to Michael, Michael promised to help her and then she left. Caesar, Mihael's servant disapproves Michael's wish to help her. He says that the woman is a Mata Hari and he saw how she was wrapping him around her finger.
Caesar: But even Colonel Vallier himself is positive that Trégard was a... (Caesar means that, according to Colonel Vallier, Trégard is a traitor).
Michael: And if he's innocent? What if she's right and they are wrong? ("they" refers to the Secret Service of which Colonel Vallier is the head).
Caesar: Oh, yes, the green monster of right and wrong leers while laughing at the innocent. Victor Hugo.
What does "the green monster of right and wrong" mean?
To make my question clearer: What troubles me is this part: "of right and wrong."
When it (of right and wrong) is used with nouns like sense, concept, etc., the meaning is perfectly clear. For example, in "Humankind's inherent sense of right and wrong cannot be biologically explained" (the sentence is taken from Google), the meaning of "sense of right and wrong" is easily understandable.
But "the green monster of right and wrong" doesn't make sense to me.
If the video is needed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjc3j6EIBOI&t=537s
The scene in question begins at 8.46
Thank you.
PS: I asked this question on another forum, but so far, no answers.
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/the-green-monster-of...
From the 1964 movie Mission to Venice.
Context: A woman asked Michael, the protagonist, to help her find her missing husband Paul Trégard. She talked to Michael, Michael promised to help her and then she left. Caesar, Mihael's servant disapproves Michael's wish to help her. He says that the woman is a Mata Hari and he saw how she was wrapping him around her finger.
Caesar: But even Colonel Vallier himself is positive that Trégard was a... (Caesar means that, according to Colonel Vallier, Trégard is a traitor).
Michael: And if he's innocent? What if she's right and they are wrong? ("they" refers to the Secret Service of which Colonel Vallier is the head).
Caesar: Oh, yes, the green monster of right and wrong leers while laughing at the innocent. Victor Hugo.
What does "the green monster of right and wrong" mean?
To make my question clearer: What troubles me is this part: "of right and wrong."
When it (of right and wrong) is used with nouns like sense, concept, etc., the meaning is perfectly clear. For example, in "Humankind's inherent sense of right and wrong cannot be biologically explained" (the sentence is taken from Google), the meaning of "sense of right and wrong" is easily understandable.
But "the green monster of right and wrong" doesn't make sense to me.
If the video is needed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjc3j6EIBOI&t=537s
The scene in question begins at 8.46
Thank you.
PS: I asked this question on another forum, but so far, no answers.
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/the-green-monster-of...
Change log
Dec 17, 2023 05:58: VICTOR ORNGU Created KOG entry
Responses
4 days
VICTOR ORNGU
Nigeria
Nigeria
Nigeria
Translation, Subtitling, Copywriting
Native in: Nigerian , Tiv 
, Hausa , Nigerian Pidgin
Works in: Tiv to Hausa, English to Nigerian, English to Hausa, and 18 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
The green monster of right and wrong
"The green monster of right and wrong" appears to be a metaphorical expression used by Caesar. The color green is often associated with jealousy, but it can also represent evil or corruption. Here, it could be interpreted that the "green monster" represents the corruption or perversion of moral judgment - the struggle between what is considered right and wrong.
This "monster" could be seen as a personification of the conflicts, misunderstandings, and potential harm that can arise from differing perceptions of morality. In other words, it refers to the potential danger or harm that can come from disputes or conflicts over what is considered right or wrong.
However, it's important to note that this phrase does not appear in Victor Hugo's works, so it's not a direct quote from him. It might be an interpretation or adaptation of his themes or ideas.
This "monster" could be seen as a personification of the conflicts, misunderstandings, and potential harm that can arise from differing perceptions of morality. In other words, it refers to the potential danger or harm that can come from disputes or conflicts over what is considered right or wrong.
However, it's important to note that this phrase does not appear in Victor Hugo's works, so it's not a direct quote from him. It might be an interpretation or adaptation of his themes or ideas.
Note from asker:
| Thank you, VICTOR! |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Many thanks to everyone.
Thank you, VICTOR."
17 hrs
Susana E. Cano Méndez
Spain
Spain
Spain
Sworn (FRES) & Legal (EN>ES). EN>FR
Native in: Spanish (Variant: Standard-Spain)
Works in: French to Spanish, Spanish to French, English to Spanish, and 5 more.
the green monster who tells right from wrong for us
Hi, this is my interpretation.
Hope it helps!
Hope it helps!
Note from asker:
| Thank you, Susana. |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Barbara Carrara
: Meaning?
17 hrs
|
|
Well, there is a green monster who decides for us...
|
5 days
airmailrpl
Brazil
Brazil
Native in English
&
English
Brazil
Technical - Fast - good price - accurate
Native in: English (Variant: US) , Portuguese (Variant: Brazilian)
Works in: English to Portuguese, Portuguese to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
36
jealousy..jealous..over jealous..distrustful
green monster of right and wrong => green-eyed monster of right and wrong => jealousy..jealous..over jealous..distrustful
What is the meaning of the green monster?
the green-eyed monster
informal. : jealousy thought of as a monster that bites or attacks people. She was bitten by the green-eyed monster. [=she became jealous]
Green–eyed monster Definition & Meaning - Britannica
What does green eyed mean slang?
jealous
Definitions of green-eyed. adjective. suspicious or unduly suspicious or fearful of being displaced by a rival. synonyms: jealous, overjealous distrustful.
Green-eyed - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms - Vocabulary.com
jealousy
: jealousy imagined as a monster that attacks people. usually used with the. Finally, he suffered from professional jealousy, although, at least in public, he kept the green-eyed monster at bay most of the time.
Green-eyed monster Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
What does over jealous mean?
Extreme jealousy means the jealous person is insecure and for whatever reason, unsure of their loved one. Sometimes the jealousy is unwarranted and might be a red flag of an unstable person. As Greg Scott points out, some very jealous people consider their loved one their property.Mar 2, 2018
What is the meaning of the green monster?
the green-eyed monster
informal. : jealousy thought of as a monster that bites or attacks people. She was bitten by the green-eyed monster. [=she became jealous]
Green–eyed monster Definition & Meaning - Britannica
What does green eyed mean slang?
jealous
Definitions of green-eyed. adjective. suspicious or unduly suspicious or fearful of being displaced by a rival. synonyms: jealous, overjealous distrustful.
Green-eyed - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms - Vocabulary.com
jealousy
: jealousy imagined as a monster that attacks people. usually used with the. Finally, he suffered from professional jealousy, although, at least in public, he kept the green-eyed monster at bay most of the time.
Green-eyed monster Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
What does over jealous mean?
Extreme jealousy means the jealous person is insecure and for whatever reason, unsure of their loved one. Sometimes the jealousy is unwarranted and might be a red flag of an unstable person. As Greg Scott points out, some very jealous people consider their loved one their property.Mar 2, 2018
Reference comments
9 hrs
Reference:
comment
I am unable to find your phrase online
I have only heard of the "green-eyed monster" in Othello which = jealousy
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Note added at 9 ore (2023-12-07 09:11:23 GMT)
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there are more hits if you search with "Victor Hugo, good and evil, Quasimodo"
it is possible your translation is incorrect
I have only heard of the "green-eyed monster" in Othello which = jealousy
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 ore (2023-12-07 09:11:23 GMT)
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there are more hits if you search with "Victor Hugo, good and evil, Quasimodo"
it is possible your translation is incorrect
Note from asker:
| Thank you, liz. |
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Tomasso
: Agree, lots to read searching by adding Nerval https://www.google.com/search?q=Gérard de Nerval Victor Hugo...
1 day 9 hrs
|
| agree |
Anastasia Kalantzi
2 days 12 hrs
|
1 day 19 hrs
Reference:
Nerval, green monster, supernatural human Quasimodo
As mentioned by Barbara and Susanna, (todo nuevo para mi, nunca he leido antes), place to look.....1.2. Le personnel surnaturel
18 Deux ouvrages analysent l’ampleur du phénomène : Claudius Grillet, Le diable dans la littérature a (...)
19Comme chacun sait… et comme le rappelle le narrateur du Monstre vert, le diable est un personnage médiéval. Et il constitue bien entendu, par ses pouvoirs prodigieux et son action maléfique exercée souterrainement sur les êtres humains, un personnage associé à la magie, à la superstition et au surnaturel, qui peuple les contes et les ballades romantiques18. Dans l’univers médiéval, tout phénomène inexpliqué tend à être attribué à Dieu, et plus souvent au diable. Celui-ci en effet ne manque pas d’agents à sa solde, qu’ils soient surnaturels comme les lutins, gnomes, ondins et autres sylphes, ou humains tels les sorcières ou les alchimistes. Max Milner souligne par exemple l’invasion du genre fantastique par le diable et ses affidés, tout droit sortis des ténèbres du Moyen Âge :
un poco largo, mi sispiace Hugo le reprend dans Notre-Dame de Paris, où Claude Frollo est persuadé que sa passion pour Esmeralda n’est que le fruit d’un pouvoir diabolique qu’il lui faut éradiquer. Le romancier en profite pour rappeler quelques superstitions populaires, telle celle du moine bourru, complice supposé de la sorcière Esmeralda. Celle-ci, égyptienne et bohémienne, a d’ailleurs forcément commerce avec les forces du mal. Lors de son procès, elle est accusée d’actes de sorcellerie commis avec l’aide de sa chèvre, assimilée à un bouc, animal suprêmement diabolique. De la même façon, dans l’esprit du peuple, Claude Frollo et Quasimodo sont liés par un pacte diabolique.
27On rejoint, avec le personnage de Claude Frollo, les thèmes privilégiés du roman gothique. En effet, le portrait qui en est fait le rapproche d’Ambrosio, héros du Moine de Lewis. Comme lui, Claude Frollo apparaît comme un modèle de vertu trop sûr de lui qui finit par succomber à la tentation. De plus, si Ambrosio est victime du diable qui a pris la forme de la belle Mathilde, Frollo interprète ses souffrances comme le fruit des manœuvres démoniaques d’Esmeralda, créature de l’enfer. Sa mort, enfin, est la réplique de celle du moine : celui-ci est précipité par Satan du haut d’une falaise, après avoir signé le pacte et vendu son âme ; Claude Frollo est jeté de la cathédrale par Quasimodo, après avoir souri face au supplice d’Esmeralda. Sa mort est d’ailleurs interprétée par le peuple comme l’accomplissement du pacte diabolique passé avec Quasimodo.
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Note added at 1 day 19 hrs (2023-12-08 18:42:49 GMT)
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links https://books.openedition.org/pur/29638?lang=en
Green as positive and negative, quote " 49 La couleur verte est très significative ; le Diable traditionnel est rouge. Si l'on en croit la symbolique des couleurs, le
vert est une couleur à double sens ; à la fois positif et négatif. Positif en ce qu'elle évoque la nature, les saisons, la
création (conception orientale). Négatif en ce qu'elle peut représenter la couleur des drogues et des poisons (par
exemple, l'absinthe, également surnommée la fée verte), de la mort (le cadavre est verdâtre, maladif) et de malice
(fées et autres créatures étranges d'une nature imaginaire). Link https://dumas.ccsd.cnrs.fr/dumas-00516958/document
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days 17 hrs (2023-12-10 17:11:21 GMT)
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copy of link added by ormiston https://books.openedition.org/puse/3340?lang=fr
18 Deux ouvrages analysent l’ampleur du phénomène : Claudius Grillet, Le diable dans la littérature a (...)
19Comme chacun sait… et comme le rappelle le narrateur du Monstre vert, le diable est un personnage médiéval. Et il constitue bien entendu, par ses pouvoirs prodigieux et son action maléfique exercée souterrainement sur les êtres humains, un personnage associé à la magie, à la superstition et au surnaturel, qui peuple les contes et les ballades romantiques18. Dans l’univers médiéval, tout phénomène inexpliqué tend à être attribué à Dieu, et plus souvent au diable. Celui-ci en effet ne manque pas d’agents à sa solde, qu’ils soient surnaturels comme les lutins, gnomes, ondins et autres sylphes, ou humains tels les sorcières ou les alchimistes. Max Milner souligne par exemple l’invasion du genre fantastique par le diable et ses affidés, tout droit sortis des ténèbres du Moyen Âge :
un poco largo, mi sispiace Hugo le reprend dans Notre-Dame de Paris, où Claude Frollo est persuadé que sa passion pour Esmeralda n’est que le fruit d’un pouvoir diabolique qu’il lui faut éradiquer. Le romancier en profite pour rappeler quelques superstitions populaires, telle celle du moine bourru, complice supposé de la sorcière Esmeralda. Celle-ci, égyptienne et bohémienne, a d’ailleurs forcément commerce avec les forces du mal. Lors de son procès, elle est accusée d’actes de sorcellerie commis avec l’aide de sa chèvre, assimilée à un bouc, animal suprêmement diabolique. De la même façon, dans l’esprit du peuple, Claude Frollo et Quasimodo sont liés par un pacte diabolique.
27On rejoint, avec le personnage de Claude Frollo, les thèmes privilégiés du roman gothique. En effet, le portrait qui en est fait le rapproche d’Ambrosio, héros du Moine de Lewis. Comme lui, Claude Frollo apparaît comme un modèle de vertu trop sûr de lui qui finit par succomber à la tentation. De plus, si Ambrosio est victime du diable qui a pris la forme de la belle Mathilde, Frollo interprète ses souffrances comme le fruit des manœuvres démoniaques d’Esmeralda, créature de l’enfer. Sa mort, enfin, est la réplique de celle du moine : celui-ci est précipité par Satan du haut d’une falaise, après avoir signé le pacte et vendu son âme ; Claude Frollo est jeté de la cathédrale par Quasimodo, après avoir souri face au supplice d’Esmeralda. Sa mort est d’ailleurs interprétée par le peuple comme l’accomplissement du pacte diabolique passé avec Quasimodo.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 19 hrs (2023-12-08 18:42:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
links https://books.openedition.org/pur/29638?lang=en
Green as positive and negative, quote " 49 La couleur verte est très significative ; le Diable traditionnel est rouge. Si l'on en croit la symbolique des couleurs, le
vert est une couleur à double sens ; à la fois positif et négatif. Positif en ce qu'elle évoque la nature, les saisons, la
création (conception orientale). Négatif en ce qu'elle peut représenter la couleur des drogues et des poisons (par
exemple, l'absinthe, également surnommée la fée verte), de la mort (le cadavre est verdâtre, maladif) et de malice
(fées et autres créatures étranges d'une nature imaginaire). Link https://dumas.ccsd.cnrs.fr/dumas-00516958/document
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days 17 hrs (2023-12-10 17:11:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
copy of link added by ormiston https://books.openedition.org/puse/3340?lang=fr
Note from asker:
| Thank you, Tomasso. |
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Anastasia Kalantzi
1 day 3 hrs
|
|
Merci, like Pagnol, maybe Hugo writes multiple meanings, the naive arm of justice, the naive quasimodo ?
|
Discussion
After some digging it turns out to be not "an original text" but only a really strange translation ("creative adaption"??) for:
"Le monstre vert de l'écriture erronée se moquant de l'innocent"
Nothing much to do with "right vs wrong", the point is about false accusations. Pretty clear if you pay attention to the context.
See https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-french/poetry-literatu...
If you search for "monstre vert" on GBooks, you’ll see Gérard de Nerval popping up and maybe "LE MONSTRE VERT : LA BEAUTÉ DU DIABLE." Though you might also see this (from the 1998 book "Les diaboliques, 1874, Barbey d'Aurevilly," by Stéphanie Champeau):
"Le diable est parfois représenté comme un monstre vert dans les vitraux des cathédrales du Moyen Âge."
There's also a book written by Hugo called "Cromwell le château du diable"; I think, though, it's more likely that the quote is made up. A lot of quotes have been attributed to people who never said any of them; who knows what the screenwriter was thinking of at the time.
Best
https://www.opensubtitles.com/at/subtitles/108-voir-venise-e...
I must also add that there is no guarantee that the subtitles are 100% accurate.
By the way, does the French sentence make sense to you, Barbara, and if it does, how do you understand it?
I also looked up Hugo's L'homme qui rit (The Man Who Laughs) hoping to find a clue there. No such luck, I am afraid.
- Mais le colonel a dit que Trégard était un traître.
- Et s'il est innocent? Si elle a raison et qu'il a tort?
- "Le monstre vert de l'écriture erronée se moquant de l'innocent". Victor Hugo.
I don't know French, but, as far as I can tell, l'écriture erronée is not exactly the same as "right and wrong."
In English the quote is: "The green monster of right and wrong leers while laughing at the innocent."
After saying that the servant adds, "Victor Hugo." https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/victor-hugos-green-m... Quesion is new to me, quasimodo wears green, sometimes has green color, meaning of green to some in england, gree as naive, innocent, foolish, (Je ne sais, do not know,)Quasimodo blindly and innocently followed orders of others, but innocently.