This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
la facétie
Les synthés
May 7, 2023 08:08
1 yr ago
39 viewers *
French term

faire contenant déclaration par le Bailleur

French to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s)
the clause résolutoire from a lease contract. The entire sentence is as follows:

A défaut de paiement à son échéance d’un seul terme de Loyer, rappel de Loyer, charges ou accessoires, comme à défaut d'exécution d’une seule des conditions du présent Bail, et un mois après un simple commandement de payer ou de faire contenant déclaration par le Bailleur de se prévaloir de la présente clause, demeuré sans effet, le Bail sera résilié de plein droit, si bon semble au Bailleur, même en cas de paiement ou d'exécution postérieure.

I can only assume that this means "agree to" or similar. Is something missing here, or am I missing something?

Many thanks for any help.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 an uncertified notice to pay or (actively) remedy (&) containing the Landlord's notice of intent
3 +2 comma, parsing... + the formal word
4 payment or enforcement order in which the lessor states
4 (to pay or to) carry out, which sets out a statement by the Landlord/Lessor
3 a declaration of notification by the Bailleur
3 -2 request to pay or to fulfill another contractual obligation, including a notice ...
References
What is a "commandement de faire"?

Discussion

AllegroTrans May 9, 2023:
@ Jennifer It's your call. but I based my comment on AMM's answer and I think he deserves the credit.
Jennifer White (asker) May 8, 2023:
@Allegro Yes, thank you, that's right I think. Pity I caused everyone to go round the houses to get to the real point. If you put this as an answer I'll accept it. Thanks again.
Charles R. May 8, 2023:
@ Jennifer It wasn't criticism and I am sorry if it felt like it was.

"Commandement de faire" is just a standard term. Please refer to this wiki article https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commandement_en_droit_frança... already posted by Phil.
AllegroTrans May 8, 2023:
@ Jennifer This effectively reads "..un mois après un simple commandement de payer ou un commandement de faire" i.e. two forms of demand, one to pay arrears of rent the other comply with a contractual obligation/remedy a breach of an obligation.
AllegroTrans May 8, 2023:
@ All Some clarification. A "commandement" is not a court order, nor a mere request. It is a formal demand (AMM calls it a notice). This is "extrajudicial" process and for a commandement de payer a rough UK equivalent is a statutory demand. Please see my ref. entry explaining commandement de faire. "Enforcement" is out of the question here. AMM has understood this properly and his answer comes closest imo.
Jennifer White (asker) May 8, 2023:
@Charles Did you not see my post further down where I explained again what the problem was. It was the word "faire" with no object in this context. Despite having completed many such documents over the years, I have never come across the word used in this way. I rarely post a question unless I am flummoxed by a word or phrase and didn't expect this implied criticism.
SafeTex May 8, 2023:
@ AllegroTrans and all Hello

Were really getting bogged down with this but with regard to your last comment at 03:15, what if it's a court bailiff? Surely then there has been a court order???
See: https://www.gov.uk/your-rights-bailiffs

where bailiffs are referred to as "enforcement agents" in brackets
Charles R. May 8, 2023:
@ Jennifer I do not really understand what the problem is with "de payer ou de faire". This part refers to the beginning of the sentence as ph-b has already explained.
- "de payer" refers to [paiement d’un loyer, rappel de loyer, etc.]
- "de faire" refers to [exécution d’une ou plusieurs conditions du bail]
Charles R. May 8, 2023:
Thank you Emmanuella! And I think the comma isn't necessary. This is perfectly valid French without a comma before "contenant".
AllegroTrans May 8, 2023:
My problem with Phil's answer is "enforcement"; If a bailiff (or anyone else, e.g. service by post) serves a commandement de faire (see my ref) this is not enforcement, but merely a "final notice".
SafeTex May 7, 2023:
@ all Hello

I too think that Phil may well be right with "order" after reading his reference and reasoning
it''s certainly not a "request" in any case as "request" is too light. In "normal circumstances, if it's not an order from a huissier, it would be a "DEMAND"
Conor McAuley May 7, 2023:
Lastly, "order to pay" is right Phil is right apart from the precise words used, ref. FHS Bridge: an "order to pay" is a formal notice served by a bailiff, a "commandement de payer".

However, a landlord/lessor can make a request for payment, which is different, has a lower legal status.

What a kerfuffle.
Conor McAuley May 7, 2023:
Yes, you're right.

Looks like i didn't read Charles's entry properly, and I missed Jennifer's clarification of her issue with the term (sorry Jennifer)...brain fog.

The issue is parsing, which can be solved by a comma.

But mea culpa all the same.

The whole question should be deleted from the records, we all messed up, some of the best people who answer these questions!
Emmanuella May 7, 2023:
Conor - Or course, I agree. However, you mention that we've got an 'unholy mess', which means that the comma is not the key issue...
Charles R. is the [ first] one who gave the right interpretation. Soyons 'fair play'!
Conor McAuley May 7, 2023:
To Asker and to Emmanuella To Asker: the clearer question would have been "I can only assume that this [FAIRE] means 'agree to' or similar" then.

As things stand, you've got six answers and an unholy mess! To be quite honest with you.

Emmanuella: the sentence does indeed work without that comma, but it works so much better with it.
Emmanuella May 7, 2023:
@ Asker - Allegrotrans : ' execution d'une seule condition ... 'exécution postérieure' renvoient à 'de faire'.
Jennifer White (asker) May 7, 2023:
@Connor There was no comma, otherwise I would have looked at this differently. My problem was solely the word "faire" and how to deal with it. I have some idea now, thanks, but exactly what to use seems to be a moot point. I had no problems with the rest of the paragraph
Emmanuella May 7, 2023:
Charles R. avait bien compris le sens du paragraphe sans la virgule. ' contenant déclaration' est plus ardu, me semble-t-il.
Conor McAuley May 7, 2023:
The casual thing people say about legal translation is that you need to be careful where you put your commas, but this question highlights exactly that.

The sentence is meaningless without the comma. It would be interesting to know whether the contract drafter or the Asker left it out.
Emmanuella May 7, 2023:
Je pencherais pour la première partie de la proposition de Daryo: request to pay...in which the lessor states that...[ cf. Phil . Nothing is included IMO].
AllegroTrans May 7, 2023:
In my opinion Correct answer lies somewhere between the suggestions made by Daryo and Adrian MM
"...de faire" appears to allude to "exécution d’une seule des conditions du présent Bail" for which I would use "to comply with" but I would have expected to see "d'y faire"
Daryo May 7, 2023:
Roughly yes but there is a not so minor "detail":

in a contract between private parties, no one can "order" the other party to do anything.

You can request a payment, or something to be done. If you get no result, you can ask a public authority (usually a court) to order the other party to pay what they owe to you or to do something they should've already done.
FPC May 7, 2023:
Yes, as Conor says I was going to post when I saw his comment. It's not "faire contenant" which means nothing, but "commandement the payer ou faire" , "contentant declaration du Bailleur" " de se prévaloir de la clause"(i.e. an order to pay or do, which (order) contains declaration by the Lessor of his will to apply/use this clause). The lessor sends a formal communication to the Lessee to pay or to do something AND in the same letter also states he's appealing to the very clause that provides this scenario and his right to terminate the contract in case of non compliance.
Conor McAuley May 7, 2023:
There is a missing comma "Lorsqu'une mise en demeure de faire ou de ne pas faire, contenant déclaration de l'intention de la province Sud d'user du bénéfice du présent article"

"Lorsqu'une mise en demeure de faire ou de ne pas faire, contenant déclaration de l'intention de la province Sud d'user du bénéfice de la présente clause, ..."

So:

"de payer ou de faire, (comma!) contenant déclaration"

"to pay or to carry out, which sets out a statement"
ph-b (X) May 7, 2023:
Re: "whatever could "de payer ou de faire" mean?" commandement
1) de payer ce qui est dû en vertu du contrat de bail, càd "Loyer, rappel de Loyer, charges ou accessoires" ;
2) de faire ce qui n'a apparemment pas été fait selon le bailleur, càd "(défaut d') exécution d’une seule des conditions du présent Bail"
Jennifer White (asker) May 7, 2023:
@Charles Thank you, but whatever could "de payer ou de faire" mean? That was my problem.
Charles R. May 7, 2023:
Parsing issue The phrases "de payer ou de faire" and "contenant déclaration de se prévaloir de la présente clause" both refer to "commandement".
=> un simple commandement (de payer ou de faire) contenant déclaration de se prévaloir de la présente clause

Proposed translations

+1
4 hrs
French term (edited): un simple ccommandement de payer ou de faire (et) contenant déclaration par le Bailleur
Selected

an uncertified notice to pay or (actively) remedy (&) containing the Landlord's notice of intent

de se prévaloir de la présente clause: to rely upon this Clause.

commandement : formal notice (to pay a judgment debt etc, FHS Bridge; albeit 'formal' is rarely used in UK conveyancing practice.

Simple in FRE & SPA spa often contrasts notarially with a notarisation (notarial attestation or certification), but otherwise, plain, mere, ordinary, straight-forward or routine.

... notice to pay or remedy, routinely within 14 days in Common Law countries. I've still not changed to an 'order' to avoid a clash with thbe Landlord's notice of intent/ion.

The truncated form of the question is a bit misleading and the French 'drafting' leaves a lot to be desired (a fail in a French legal drafting exam paper ?).

Anyway, I believe this is the way (I in the Conveyancing / L&T Dept.) would have been worded in E&W or Oz and without splitting the infinitive, such as notice to 'actively' remedy.
Example sentence:

In accordance with clause 91(a) of the Schedule to the Residential Tenancies Act 1997. (“the Act”) you are required to remedy the breach within 14 days.

Reference:

http://eng.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/3915086-faire-ou-de-ne-pas-faire.html

http://eng.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-patents/113788-commandement-de-payer.html

Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans : Yes, but without "uncertified" - I fail to see where you got that word from; "actively" is not needed
4 hrs
Thanks, Chris. Uncertified, as intimated in my para. 3, is extrapolated friom the UK notarial SPA/ENG contrast of a copia simple vs. autorizada or legalizada. Otherwise, actively is bracketed and intended to move further away from a split infinitive.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much. I accepted Allegro's advice here (see D box) - this fits the bill best"
29 mins

a declaration of notification by the Bailleur

I think it means that the Landlord declares that he is going to exercise his rights as per the present clause in the agreement
Note from asker:
thank you. Yes, oddly put though....
Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : "declaration of notification" sounds very odd
7 hrs
Hello AllegroTrans. Yes, I see your point. The idea was right but it could be reformulated.
Something went wrong...
4 hrs
French term (edited): commandement de payer ou de faire contenant déclaration par le Bailleur

payment or enforcement order in which the lessor states

As Charles points out, the term has been parsed wrongly: it's "commandement de payer ou de faire".

A "commandement de faire" is an order requiring a party to fulfil one of its contractual responsibilities. I believe this is best translated as "enforcement order".

commandement de faire : pour obliger une personne à remplir l'une de ses obligations
http://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commandement_en_droit_françai...
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : You "believe" wrong - un "enforcement order" can only be issued by a public authority, NOT by a private party to a contract. // Same goes in fact for any kind of "order" to pay / do / refrain from doing anything.
1 hr
You haven't had the courtesy to read my reference. A commissaire de justice is a public authority.
disagree AllegroTrans : Agree with Daryo on this occasion; "enforcement" refers to court/bailiff action and no way are we at that stage here// nope, a bailiff may (but we don't know, it may be served by post) be serving the commandement de payer but that is not enforcement
3 hrs
It *is* bailiff action, as my reference shows. I'd appreciate your removing your disagree, though I don't expect Daryo to.
agree SafeTex : This may well be right at the end of the day (the bit about "an order")
10 hrs
Thanks.
agree Charles R. : The most convincing answer so far with Mpoma's suggestion and I agree with Phil that a commandement de payer / faire is a bailiff action.
19 hrs
Thanks.
Something went wrong...
-2
7 hrs
French term (edited): .. commandement de payer ou de faire, contenant déclaration par le Bailleur de se prévaloir de ...

request to pay or to fulfill another contractual obligation, including a notice ...

First thing first:

A défaut de

--- paiement à son échéance d’un seul terme de Loyer, rappel de Loyer, charges ou accessoires,
--- comme à défaut d'exécution d’une seule des conditions du présent Bail,

et

--- un mois après un simple commandement de payer ou de faire
--- -- contenant déclaration par le Bailleur de se prévaloir de la présente clause,
--- -- demeuré sans effet,


le Bail sera résilié de plein droit, si bon semble au Bailleur, même en cas de paiement ou d'exécution postérieure.



[--- un mois après un simple] commandement de payer ou de faire
=
a request (by the Landlord to the Tenant) to pay or "to do s.t." IOW fulfill some contractual obligation other that monetary, like repairing the fence, or the roof, or ensuring that some scheduled maintenance is done in time.

request for payment or to have some work done

In fact "un commandement ... de faire" is very general - it could be anything, not only some "work" it could be also testing the electrical installation once a year - **any** contractual obligation that is not some kind of payment (see: "défaut d'exécution d’une seule des conditions du présent Bail") so

[--- one month after a simple] request to pay or to fulfill a (/another?) contractual obligation

might be better.


--- -- contenant déclaration par le Bailleur de se prévaloir de la présente clause,
=
thus request must contain a reference / statement that the Landlord intend to prevail themselves to this clause

IOW to end the contract it's not enough to request overdue payment or that some overdue repairs be done, the request must include a reference to this clause.

--- -- including a notice (/ statement /declaration) that the Landlord intend to prevail themselves to this clause


Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : no need for "another" - it's already implied by "d'exécution d’une seule des conditions du présent Bail"
1 hr
OK
disagree philgoddard : It's not a "request", it's an order. And you haven't given a single reference.
6 hrs
The only "reference" needed is some basics of law ... you won't learn from few glossaries ...
disagree SafeTex : Even if it's not an "order" from a huissier, we would not use the word "request" here but rather "demand". "Another" does not work here either, although I understand what you mean. That should read "some other" (obligation)
7 hrs
Are you seeing ghosts??? WHERE did you see any mention of any "huissier" in the ST? // FYI you can request (demand if you prefer) payment from a debtor yourself ("comme un grand!") it's called "capacité juridique" ... Applies also to any Landlord.
Something went wrong...
4 hrs
French term (edited): faire, contenant déclaration par le Bailleur

(to pay or to) carry out, which sets out a statement by the Landlord/Lessor

There is a comma missing, examples from internet search results:

"Lorsqu'une mise en demeure de faire ou de ne pas faire, contenant déclaration de l'intention de la province Sud d'user du bénéfice du présent article"

"Lorsqu'une mise en demeure de faire ou de ne pas faire, contenant déclaration de l'intention de la province Sud d'user du bénéfice de la présente clause, ..."

So:

"de payer ou de faire, (comma!) contenant déclaration"

"to pay or to carry out, which sets out a statement"


Very straightforward with the comma there!!!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2023-05-07 12:21:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

which sets out OR setting out

That's the realm of stylistics and personal preference, either works fine.


This legal stuff, you need a clear head...the Sunday following a Coronation is perhaps not the best time to do it, I would respectfully and kindly suggest!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2023-05-07 13:17:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

SECOND EFFORT, MUCH BETTER:

order to pay or to remedy non-performance of an obligation


commandement de payer - order to pay (FHS Bridge, Council of Europe French-English Legal Dictionary)

remedy non-performance of a (contractual) obligation) - for example an order to get house insurance, which is mandatory

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2023-05-07 13:18:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

home insurance

it shoud be. It's Sunday where I am too!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2023-05-07 16:47:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

REQUEST to pay or to remedy non-performance of an obligation

Phil led me astray, plus I'm a bit rusty on contract law.

Of course without my observation about the comma to kick things off, there might not be so many other answers.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2023-05-07 21:46:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I was right with "order to pay".
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : I think "order to carry out" sounds odd - it needs an object.
29 mins
You're right, see my second effort, the main problem was the missing comma, which I was the first to solve, rest is easy, but I managed to mess it up first time around, out of complacency. / Not complacency, more a feeling of "I've done 95% of the work".
neutral AllegroTrans : to carry out what? I think it means "comply" (with the notice)
3 hrs
Nope
Something went wrong...
+2
8 hrs

comma, parsing... + the formal word

I hesitate to put another answer, but it seems to me there's a simple solution.

1) There is a comma missing, as Conor and others have said. It should be "... un mois après un simple commandement de payer ou de faire, contenant déclaration par ..."

2) The English legalese word to use here is "perform". "... one month after a simple order to pay or to perform, including a declaration by ..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 12 hrs (2023-05-08 20:25:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

@Asker Search on /"an order to perform" court/ (with those quotation marks). Most examples have an object (perform X), but there are plenty showing without...
Note from asker:
thank you very much for this. Do you have any examples of the use of "perform" in this context? I can't find any on-line.
I have searched and can find no examples of this but am sure you have a point here. Thank you.
Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans : As a pertinent comment, yes I agree with you and Conor, but this shouldn't be in the answer box (you know this...)
7 mins
Thanks. Not sure I understand the issue... !
agree Conor McAuley : "perform an obligation" I would be happier with, hiding underneath is "remedy non-performance of an obligation" / I don't understand AllegroTrans's objection to this as an answer / It is indeed an "order to pay" served by a bailiff, Phil is right / MESS!
4 hrs
Thanks. This expression, like the FR, most definitely does not need an object. The "what" is deliberately unspecified. / Oh I see. The question doesn't deserve a "straight answer" because of the critical omission of the comma: that's my point...
neutral philgoddard : This is not an answer, and I don't know what you mean by 'the formal word'.
20 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

17 hrs
Reference:

What is a "commandement de faire"?

commandement de faire : pour obliger une personne à remplir l'une de ses obligations. commandement de quitter les lieux : pour inviter une personne à quitter le logement qu'elle occupe après qu'un jugement d'expulsion a été rendu à son encontre.

Commandement en droit français - Wikipédia

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2023-05-08 01:24:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Also note that in Switzerland (and this doc could well be Swiss) a commandement de payer can be served by registered post, so we cannot assume that a bailiff will be used

Actes de poursuite - Envoi de commandements de payer et ...
Die Post
https://www.post.ch › briefe-betreibungsurkunde
PDF
– Étiquetage par la Poste: sur demande, nous apposons les codes à barres sur vos envois et établissons également la liste des destinataires pour vous. Il existe ...


Expédition sécurisée d'actes de poursuite | La Poste
https://www.post.ch › actes-de-pour...


Pour les offices des poursuites et des faillites, nous nous chargeons de la distribution d'actes de poursuite (AP) tels que les commandements de payer et ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2023-05-08 09:30:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Commandement de payer : Définition juridique et principes
Litige.fr
https://www.litige.fr › definitions
·
21 Mar 2023 — Définition : le Commandement de payer est un document remis par huissier demandant au locataire de s'acquitter de ses loyers impayés.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2023-05-08 09:31:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

People also ask
Quelle suite après un commandement de payer ?
Quelle suite après un commandement de payer ? Après la réception de cet acte juridique, le locataire peut décider de payer son retard de loyer afin de mettre fin à la procédure. Toutefois, il peut contester les sommes dues dans le délai imparti. Vous devrez donc prouver que l'échéance n'a pas été réglée.

Loyer impayé : tout sur le commandement de payer
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Conor McAuley : See Bridge also...for the short version, for France
8 hrs
Yezz, thank you, but this could conceivably be Switzerland, Belgium or Luxembourg
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search