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vero lasanté
défûtage
Dec 14, 2022 18:37
1 yr ago
40 viewers *
French term

exemplaires destinés à l'envoi des justificatifs

French to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s)
This is a section from a copyright assignment agreement.

It is part of a section that details the copies for which the photographer is not entitled to receive remuneration:

- les exemplaires destinés au dépôt légal
- les exemplaires destinés à *l'envoi des justificatifs*
- les exemplaires destinés à la promotion
- les exemplaires mis au pilon

I've found something very similar here about 'l'envoi des justificatifs d'impression, réimpression, édition' on this website: https://ledroitdesavoir.imt-atlantique.fr/res/resource/xg5oh...

My issue is I can't pin down the English equivalent.

My attempt so far: 'copies sent as proof'. The only issue I have with that is that I also have 'print proofs' in this document.

Any help would be much appreciated!
Proposed translations (English)
3 copies intended as evidence
5 sample copies to be sent to the licensors as a proof of entitlement
4 copy to be used as proof of delivery (as "proof of execution" of the contract)
4 -1 Copies to be sent with supporting documents
3 -2 copies intended for the (e-)mailing of (sealed-storage, preserved) evidence
3 -2 copies to be sent as evidence to royalty collection societies

Discussion

Daryo Dec 15, 2022:
@Adrian MM Yes, there is this old trick of sending to yourself your own manuscript by post and not opening it, before sending copies to publishers and literary agents.

The date on the post stamp being a "proof of priority", in case anyone receiving a copy of your manuscript gets tempted to appropriate for themselves your work.

Which is not entirely a hypothetical situation - I know of one case where a translation of a whole book was appropriated (or in plain speak: stolen) by an editor who simply erased the translator's name and declared himself to be the translator of the book. Resulting in a dispute that's probably still ongoing. The translator never bothered to secure any proof of the date when he finished the translation.

But the situation in this text is different. Someone has already bought the copyright from this photographer [otherwise there would no contract to translate!], so there is no longer any need to worry about a possible dispute about authorship. HERE "les justificatifs" are simply the printed final version of the work.
Daryo Dec 15, 2022:
Not necessarily "publication" it could also be only to show what exactly was printed.
Not everything "printed" gets to be "published" (made available to the general public).
philgoddard Dec 14, 2022:
Proof of publication?
philgoddard Dec 14, 2022:
Thanks It could be the first translation here:
http://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/traduction/justificat...
I'm not sure what we'd call this in English.
Séverine Watson (asker) Dec 14, 2022:
@Phil re: print proof I have the term 'épreuve', which in context very much looks like the print proof.

Here's the redacted version of the clause which should give you a better idea:
'la société remettra les épreuves au Photographe qui s'engage à retourner la *dernière épreuve revêtue de son bon à tirer*'

As it stands, I've translated that last bit as 'approved final print proof'.
philgoddard Dec 14, 2022:
It does sound like proof copies. What does the other bit say, the one you've translated as 'print proofs'?

Proposed translations

16 hrs
Selected

copies intended as evidence

The French here seems too obstruse
Keep it simple
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : We don't know what they're evidence of.
4 hrs
thanks
neutral Daryo : yes, you could see it as a kind of "evidence" but so is any purchase receipt or entrance ticket + **plenty of relevant references just waiting to be noticed and picked up**, there isn't any unsolvable mystery that would force the translator into guessing.
5 hrs
Yes, and the asker's text is not sufficiently explicit to expand, as you and another colleague have recklessly done (imho)
disagree José Julián Díaz : See my explanation.
22 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Apologies for the late grading. Unfortunately, the client never got back to me on this. So I preferred your option for its simplicity."
-1
5 mins

Copies to be sent with supporting documents

Copies to be sent as proofs with supporting documentation; your own idea is on the right lines, for sure.
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : I think they're sent AS supporting documents.
3 hrs
Yep, thanks Phil, you could well be right;
neutral AllegroTrans : Where is the "with" in the ST?
16 hrs
See my comments to PG;
disagree José Julián Díaz : See my explanation.
23 days
Something went wrong...
-2
9 hrs

copies intended for the (e-)mailing of (sealed-storage, preserved) evidence

In days of old, as our legal experts may recall, a copyright author(ess) would send copies in a sealed envelope back to him or herself for 'preservation of evidence' (first weblink) - to be opened by their Solicitor etc. or themselves and only on a dispute arising over copyright infringement.

In these days of email, the emphasis may have switched to an email record.

I doubt it is anything to do with print proofs.
Example sentence:

The work must be time stamped and remain sealed for this to provide any legal proof. Electronic emailing or saving of the work, which will provide a time-stamped copy, is another way to evidence creation and ownership.

Reference:

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/evidenc3.html

Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : "I doubt it is anything to do with print proofs"? In this ST it does + you assumed a wrong timing: the "sending by mail to yourself a copy" would've been done by the photographer ways before even talking to a publisher or an agent.
1 hr
neutral AllegroTrans : e-mail? sealed storage? You certainly are the world master of overtranslation
6 hrs
disagree José Julián Díaz : See my explanation.
22 days
Something went wrong...
-2
1 day 19 hrs

copies to be sent as evidence to royalty collection societies

Justificatifs
L’éditeur doit communiquer un exemplaire complet de la publication (version papier et/ou numérique) à la société dans le mois qui suit
la mise en vente ainsi que la facture d’impression.
Cette communication doit être faite pour toutes les éditions (réédition, réimpression) et, le cas échéant, pour chaque support de
promotion.
Retards dans l’envoi des justificatifs : l’Adagp pourra demander une indemnité égale à 100% des droits dus en cas de retard

The royalty collection society will use these copies as evidence to collect royalties on the photographer's behalf.
Reference:

https://www.adagp.fr/sites/default/files/bareme_adagp.pdf

Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : How do you know that this is the purpose?
6 hrs
A reasonable guess. This is a copyright assignment agreement spelling out the only circumstances under which the photographer will not receive remuneration.
disagree Daryo : you turned ONE possible use for "justicatifs" into the one and only ever possible. Context? + what makes you think that everything that gets printed is ***always*** "published for sale" (in which case: nothing to sell = no royalties to collect)
12 hrs
I don't think I did. The purpose of this list is to propose possible translations. The same could be said about your suggestion. Which is more likely, yours or mine or another? Let the asker decide.
disagree José Julián Díaz : See my explanation.
21 days
Something went wrong...
7 hrs
French term (edited): exemplaire destiné à l'envoi des justificatifs

copy to be used as proof of delivery (as "proof of execution" of the contract)


copy of the work in its final printed / published version to be used as proof of delivery of the contract for printing / reprinting / ...

IOW as "proof of execution" of the contract, a copy used to provide a proof ("evidence") to the client of the final result - to document what was finaly printed/published.


JUSTIFICATIFS D’IMPRESSION
ET BAT (Bon À Tirer)

Afin de vous garantir un rendu d'impression idéal, nous vous proposons différents points de contrôle qui vous permettront de rectifier votre projet si nécessaire avant l’impression finale.

Le Bon À Tirer numérique
Vous recevrez par mail un lien avant l’impression qui vous invite à vérifier le fichier à imprimer. Ce service vous offre la possibilité de nous notifier les changements que vous aimeriez effectuer avant le tirage définitif.

Le Bon À Tirer papier
Avant l’impression de la commande, nous vous proposons d'opter pour un Bon A Tirer en version papier pour que vous puissiez juger concrètement du projet final.
La validation des commandes sensibles est ainsi plus aisée et vous estimerez le rendu avant l’impression dans nos ateliers.
Le BAT papier vous est remis par un transport express. Il s’agit d’un BAT Fogra (épreuve contractuelle UGRA/Fogra en conformité avec l’ISO 12647-7).
Pour toute commande passée avant 15h, l’épreuve contrat est livrée chez vous dès le lendemain. Deux BAT Fogra sont alors imprimés. L’un vous sera livré et l’autre est conservé par Exaprint pour le calage de la chromie en machine. Vous pourrez ensuite valider le BAT directement en ligne pour gagner du temps.

Le BAT version papier est une impression jet d’encre pour la validation des couleurs des documents à imprimer. Les épreuves couleurs ISO pour les papiers.

************
Les justificatifs d’impression
En parallèle de l’envoi de la commande à votre client, nous pouvons vous envoyer des justificatifs pour vérifier la conformité de la commande. Ils sont livrés le lendemain de l’expédition de la commande. C’est une option particulièrement intéressante lorsque vous faites livrer la commande directement chez votre client. Ainsi vous vous assurez de la conformité du rendu du projet que vous avez imaginé avec le client.
************

https://www.exaprint.fr/imprimerie-en-ligne/justificatifs-im...

Also, this agrees with:

Le contrat d'édition précise le nombre et la destination des exemplaires de l'œuvre qui ne donnent pas lieu à la perception de droits pour l'auteur. Toute autre clause du style pas de droits d'auteur avant le 500ème exemplaire vendu est illégale. Dans ce cas précis, il s'agit d'un contrat à compte d'auteur.

X exemplaires pour le dépôt légal

X exemplaires pour l'envoi des justificatifs d'impression, réimpression, édition

X exemplaires destinés à la promotion

X exemplaires pour l'auteur (x exemplaires réservés à l'usage personnel) . Si l'auteur désire acquérir des exemplaires supplémentaires, un prix préférentiel lui est souvent accordé : prix public TTC moins 40 %.

https://ledroitdesavoir.imt-atlantique.fr/res/resource/xg5oh...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2022-12-15 02:33:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


as opposed to "correction proofs" sent BEFORE printing for final approval.

The Supplier will receive correction proofs, which he must check for correctness and completeness.

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-polish/business-commer...

correction proofs pl—Korrekturabzüge pl
https://www.linguee.com/english-german/translation/correctio...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 7 hrs (2022-12-17 02:25:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

an example of "proof of execution" (of a contract) - same idea as for "justificatifs (d’impression)" as use in this ST:


What is a proof of execution (PoE)?
After you get paid for your incentives work, you must submit a detailed proof of execution (PoE) to Microsoft. Your PoE may include details about any related campaign, the date an incentives activity occurred, and the amount claimed.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/partner-center/incentives-...
Something went wrong...
23 days

sample copies to be sent to the licensors as a proof of entitlement

When you work in a publishing house, whether as a designer, translator, proofreader, or editor, you are included in the intellectual property of a book, and as such, you are entitled to receive one to three copies depending on the publishing house. Therefore, in this situation, you shall transfer the intellectual right of the work to the publisher. Once the book is published, you will receive your corresponding sample copies.

I don’t remember precisely, but most probably, Prentice Hall used to give me 2 copies, and McGraw Hill only 1 copy. PC Magazine used to give me 3 copies.

So, in French, the term that explains the situation is:
l'envoi aux ayants droit pour justificatif

les différentes formes de coédition des éditeurs publics
https://www.culture.gouv.fr › download › file › D...
LES DIFFÉRENTES FORMES DE COÉDITION DES ÉDITEURS PUBLICS
« Le contrat d’édition est le contrat par lequel l’auteur d’une œuvre de l’esprit ou ses ayants droit cèdent à des conditions déterminées à une personne appelée éditeur le droit de fabriquer ou de faire fabriquer en nombre des exemplaires de l’œuvre, à charge pour elle d’en assurer la publication et la diffusion. » CPI, art. L. 132-1.

Il est préférable de définir dans le contrat de coédition, pour chaque coéditeur, le nombre d’exemplaires gratuits destinés à la presse, aux membres de droit des établissements publics, aux ayants droit pour justificatif, et d’en limiter le nombre à 5 % du tirage total.


Standard agreement for the publication of a translation of a literary work
https://www.ceatl.eu/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/DutchMC1.pdf
Complimentary copies
On publication of the translation in book form the translator shall receive eight free copies, and four free copies of each reprint if he so desires.

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