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"AS TO" also a colloquial form of "SO AS TO"/"IN ORDER TO"?
Aug 7, 2022 10:20
1 yr ago
62 viewers *
English term

Libertine/ free spirit/unchaste woman

May offend English Other General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters slang
Definition and explanation:
what do you call women who like to live freely, who act as if they were young, and do as they please despite society?
They live their lives the way they want to and doesn't care about rules or customs. Please note that I'm searching for a word or term that indicates that society doesn't like them (a disapproving word/term). Also, can we add "girl" to a free spirit? A free spirit girl (I mean) or it doesn't sound English.
My suggestions:
A free spirit
A free spirit girl (because she acts like a girl)
Unchaste girl
Libertine
Please, feel free to suggest your translation.

Thank you in adavance for your help :).
Responses
3 +2 party girl/wild thing
4 +2 promiscuous/loose/"liberated"/etc.
4 +1 wild woman
3 +1 free spirit
4 loose woman
3 modern-day hippie
Change log

Aug 7, 2022 11:02: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "Slangs " to "slang"

Aug 7, 2022 14:22: Andrea Capuselli changed "Visibility" from "Visible" to "Squashed"

Aug 7, 2022 14:23: Andrea Capuselli changed "Visibility" from "Squashed" to "Visible"

Aug 7, 2022 14:23: Andrea Capuselli changed "Term Context" from "Definition and explanation: what do you call women who like to live freely, who act as if they were young, and do as they please despite society? They live their lives the way they want to and doesn\'t care about rules or customs. Please note that I\'m searching for a word or term that indicates that society doesn\'t like them (a disapproving word/term). Also, can we add \"girl\" to a free spirit? A free spirit girl (I mean) or it doesn\'t sound English. My suggestions: A free spirit A free spirit girl (because she acts like a girl) Unchaste girl Libertine Please, feel free to suggest your translation. Thank you in adavance for your help :)." to "Definition and explanation: what do you call women who like to live freely, who act as if they were young, and do as they please despite society? They live their lives the way they want to and doesn\'t care about rules or customs. Please note that I\'m searching for a word or term that indicates that society doesn\'t like them (a disapproving word/term). Also, can we add \"girl\" to a free spirit? A free spirit girl (I mean) or it doesn\'t sound English. My suggestions: A free spirit A free spirit girl (because she acts like a girl) Unchaste girl Libertine Please, feel free to suggest your translation. Thank you in adavance for your help :). " , "May Offend" from "Not Checked" to "Checked"

Aug 7, 2022 14:34: writeaway changed "Field" from "Art/Literary" to "Other"

Discussion

Daryo Aug 14, 2022:
@Ramey Rieger your method is sound - try to find what term would use someone with a strict conservative mindset to show disapproval of a women who couldn't care less about rules imposed by society. But then you suggest variants that are not really expressing disapproval.

Just an idea: what term would Mary Whitehouse have used?
AllegroTrans Aug 11, 2022:
Insufficient context or target country to know the required register. Good answers but basically they are all guesses
Arabic & More Aug 10, 2022:
@airmailrpl & Ramey Thank you for your correction! I guess I had the two songs mixed up in my mind.
airmailrpl Aug 10, 2022:
song by Cat Stevens > " the only thing that really comes to mind is the song by Cat Stevens" ...the song by Cat Stevens was "Wild World"
Ramey Rieger (X) Aug 10, 2022:
Wild Thing Originally by the Troggs, made unforgettable by Jimi Hendrix. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSWInYFVksg
In my wild days, I was referred to by conservative U.S. Americans as a anything from slut to degenerate to low-life. A free spirit would be a kind term, utterly devoid of social disapproval. LOW-LIFE may be an option here. We are all pussy-footing about somewhat and being far too mild, which reflects our hesitance to 'call a spade a spade' as the source text implies (I think). It would be MOST useful to have more context!
Vincent Meijer Aug 10, 2022:
The Wayward Girl I'm surprised that no one suggested the adjective 'wayward'. Is it too dated? I saw several people imply that being free-spirited is no longer frowned upon, I highly doubt they speak for all native English speakers or even all Americans or Brits. But if that were the case, perhaps reaching for a term from a time of rampant sexism would be the way to go?

(Or one could go to some less civilized message boards and find out what slang the degenerates are using to describe unpliable women nowadays.)
Arabic & More Aug 10, 2022:
@Yvonne I don't mean to say that the phrase "wild woman" does not exist a phrase in the US, but that I don't think it is commonly used there in general to describe the type of woman that Yassine described (I am from the US). When I hear "wild woman" (and "wild thing" in particular, as suggested by another poster), the only thing that really comes to mind is the song by Cat Stevens, which is from a totally different era. If I had to really stretch my imagination, I might think of a wild woman as one who likes to party a lot or dress provocatively, but it feels a little old fashioned. To me personally, it does not evoke images of confidence, but rather of someone who is a bit reckless and maybe engages in risky behaviors such as driving fast, taking drugs, etc.

I am just one person, however, so maybe others from the US would feel differently.
Yvonne Gallagher Aug 9, 2022:
@Yassine You don't need to apologise at all. I agree with Arabic & More that "we are translators, and we translate the ideas of other people". We can always refuse the job if we are not happy to translate material but otherwise we need to be accurate rather than put our own slant on the translation. As for attitudes to women, well we may like to believe we have better laws and status for women in the West but misogny still exists and attacks on women continue. Hey, we had an example of this recently from the US Supreme Court!

BTW Arabic & More "wild woman" is a term used on BOTH sides of the Atlantic, and basically relates to a self-confident woman who does what she likes when she likes without getting too concerned about social mores. And it's not just about sex or morals either. Though if you just want something to describe being disapproving of those you could say degenerate (you disapprove of them because you think they have low standards of behaviour or morality). I think that may be too strong here, but not enough context to know tone required. https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/exploring-female-chara...
Yassine El Bouknify (asker) Aug 7, 2022:
Thank you all for your input Please remember we're (freelance) translators, not writers, when it comes to asking questions on ProZ. It's very simple. I only translate. Let's not be judgemental. I personally don't care what others (men and women) do ... Also, it's a good opportunity to know more about other cultures ...
Arabic & More Aug 7, 2022:
@Tony I definitely feel that I could have offered a much better response if more context had been provided. As it is, we do not know if this is a text requiring an educated/formal tone or one that is more informal.
Tony M Aug 7, 2022:
@ Arabic & More I really don't think that is the case at all!
It's just that in modern Western culture, this sort of misogyny is so frowned upon that there is a lack of 'formal, official' terms to describe the kind of person we are all imagining here. Hence the terms available for translation will perforce tend to be 'slang' ones, which may or may not sit well with the register and tone of the document — about which we know so little!
Without that information, it's very difficult to judge the tone required here, and the cultural differences mean there is a real pitfall for the unwary.
Arabic & More Aug 7, 2022:
I find it extremely disingenuous for people to imply that Western culture is so morally sensitive and advanced that the English language cannot even handle the concept of a so-called “loose” woman. Phrases such as “She is a loose woman” come directly from English – and that is one of the tamer phrases we could use. If it were relevant to the topic under discussion, I could provide countless examples of Western-style misogyny, which is so rampant that it is a constant topic of conversation in the media and elsewhere – so let’s not pretend otherwise.

Finally, lest anyone forget: we are translators, and we translate the ideas of other people. Such phrases appear in a wide variety of places, including movies, novels, etc. It’s not up to us to sugar-coat the situation or pretend that such attitudes do not exist. Yassine does not have to qualify his question or say what he personally thinks or believes in order to ask the question. The question does not set an “unhealthy precedent” or go beyond “certain acceptable limits.” We are merely discussing how a certain concept is best expressed in English.
philgoddard Aug 7, 2022:
Some things just don't translate. There's a cultural difference here that won't be bridged in any of our lifetimes, and it's called misogyny. But I'm glad to see you've changed your comment to clarify that you don't share this view.
Tony M Aug 7, 2022:
@ Asker (2) Although these days generally regarded in a positive way, a 'liberated woman' might be pressed into service, if in your surrounding text you can otherwise make the societal disapproval clear.

You see how very difficult it is for us to try and make targetted suggestions, without knowing a lot more about the wider context of your document, and indeed, of the culture of the intended readership. this is far more than a mere translation issue, and demands deeper cultural understanding of both source and target cultures.
Tony M Aug 7, 2022:
@ Asker 'unchaste woman' certainly won't do — that is highly judgemental (too much even for your context, I believe) and also only addresses one particular aspect of her 'diverge,nt behaviour'.
'free spirit' (no you can't add 'girl') possibly conveys some of the right ideas — but as others have already said, is more likely in European culture to be regarded positively. The only way you could qualify it would be to say something like 'a [person] with a free spirit' — but that wouldn't be a normal or idiomatic way to express it in EN.
It does also depend on the tone and register of your document — there are various options available in a 'slang' register that might be wholly unsuitable if your document context is more formal.
An old-fashioned term that might possibly suit is 'loose woman' — the suggestion being she has 'loose morals', literally implying that she "sleeps around"; but this might be extended to encompass things like drinking, smoking, going out alone, etc.
In a slightly more literary register, you might consider 'a dissolute woman' — 'a woman who leads a dissolute life' That certainly covers more than just the 'casual sex' aspect of the idea as a whole.
Yassine El Bouknify (asker) Aug 7, 2022:
It's allowed to ask monolingual questions. Please Let's focus on providing a solution. In Morocco, it's a word we use when we want to talk about women that don't care about society norms and so on. I'm pretty sure English<>Arabic translators don't know the nuances(of course, their might some of them who know, but they don't participate in answering questions on ProZ ...). I'm searching for a word/phrase that describes women who indulge themselves: they drink alcohol, have sex outside marriage, dance, etc. But the word or phrase should be used to indicate disapprovement. I know there are cultural differences/issues, and maybe in an English speaking society, they don't judge women who act this way. Hence, there is no equivalent? Please note I'm translating, and it doesn't mean I don't like these women ...
writeaway Aug 7, 2022:
What society doesn't like them? "Please note that I'm searching for a word or term that indicates that society doesn't like them (a disapproving word/term)".
philgoddard Aug 7, 2022:
Also, you're using "girl" and "woman" as though they mean the same thing.
writeaway Aug 7, 2022:
Please, feel free to suggest your translation What translation? Do you want a translation into Arabic?
philgoddard Aug 7, 2022:
Why don't you post this as an Arabic to English question, with some context?

The problem here is that free-spirited young women are not generally disapproved of in English-speaking cultures. They can have sex without being married, and have multiple partners without being stigmatized.

"Free spirit" is the only one of your suggestions that works, but it has positive connotations.

Responses

+2
2 hrs
Selected

party girl/wild thing

Used to be one myself.
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway : With party girl. It's not quite as offensive, anachronistic or misogynistic as other options.But I still feel this sort of question sets an unhealthy precedent and goes beyond certain acceptable limits.
2 hrs
agree Anastasia Kalantzi
7 hrs
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : Party girl implies a young woman, who dresses provocatively and yes, goes to parties. Not necessarily someone who doesn't follow the rules//and "wild thing"(the song) was simply slang for sex
8 hrs
neutral Daryo : as used by most people, that is not really a term that shows disapproval. From the point of view of people using the term Asker tries to translate, it's like calling a terrorist a freedom fighter.
6 days
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
2 hrs

wild woman

NOT "libertine" or "Unchaste" (OUCH!)

I agree with others in Dbox.

"free spirit(ed)" is not really disapproved of by many of us in Western society and why should it be? We don't (and shouldn't) disapprove of women who are free spirits unless we also disapprove of such men.

Of course it's different for women living in patriarchal societies that are still somewhere in the middle ages as regards the position of women. And there are people (mostly men but also some women) who dispprove of such women in western society too These are people who also haven't realised we are now in the 22nd century. :-(

Also, do not conflate "girls" and "women". Any female over 16 in western society does not like to be called a "girl"

Many of us don't disapprove of a "wild woman" or a "wild-at-heart woman" either but the word "wild" has more negative overtones than "free" so it might suit your purposes (which aren't really clear by the way?). Context is scant.

https://wildsimplejoy.com/signs-wild-woman/

https://www.creativescreenwriting.com/exploring-female-chara...
"The Wild Woman is also one of the fastest evolving character archetypes. As the world changes, so does our definition of wild; what would have gotten a woman crushed with heavy rocks or burned at the stake four hundred years ago is now admired as a character quirk or a woman embracing her thunder. ..."
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : I agree with your comments, and I think your analysis is correct, subject to the lack of context.
8 hrs
Many thanks Tony!
neutral Daryo : you are missing the point: the question is about what term of disapproval would be used by some die-hard conservatives - whether the targets of the said disapproval like or not the term used is not part of the equation.
6 days
YOU are the one missing the point. I gave a reasoned answer to the question as asked, more than some people have done! And then completely wrong answer gets chosen!
Something went wrong...
8 hrs

modern-day hippie

Hippie:
A member of a counterculture originating in the United States in the 1960s, typically characterized by unconventional dress and behavior, communal or transient lifestyles, opposition to war, and liberal attitudes toward sexuality and the use of marijuana and psychedelic drugs.
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/hippie
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : The trouble is, that really does conjure up a certain historical period; and in many peoplke's eyse, would be seen as positive rather than negative, as the text seems to require.
1 hr
neutral Arabic & More : I agree with Tony on this.
8 hrs
neutral Daryo : a "modern-day hippie" in today's Morocco?
6 days
Something went wrong...
+2
1 hr

promiscuous/loose/"liberated"/etc.

There are many terms that could be used in English depending on the exact context and sentence in which the word appears. For example, I could say that a woman is liberated, but placing the word in quotation marks shows that I am being sarcastic. For example: the so-called "liberated" women of the West.

Free-spirited is generally positive, as indicated above, but this could also be turned into a negative with the use of quotation marks: a so-called "free-spirited" woman who drinks and sleeps around.

You could also say that she is promiscuous or loose (meaning that she sleeps around) or has loose morals (which could include other behaviors as well). A lot really just depends on the context...and it is not always the specific word that you use, but the sentence as a whole and what it conveys.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2022-08-07 12:38:04 GMT)
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As for "unchaste," it can be used in certain circumstances, particularly if the text is a religious (Islamic) text. However, it only refers to sexual relations outside of marriage and does not cover behaviors like smoking, drinking, etc.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2022-08-07 20:35:29 GMT)
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My opinions on some of the other options provided by other posters:

I agree with "party girl" as a possibility but feel it mostly applies to younger women and would generally not be used with those who are older. Also, it implies that the woman literally goes to parties (usually frequently) and enjoys them, which might be the case in your particular text.

As for "wild," this may be used in some places, but I don't think it would be very common to say wild thing or woman in the US, so you may wish to take this into consideration as well depending on your target audience.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2022-08-07 20:36:03 GMT)
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I meant to say: which might *not* be the case in your particular text.

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Note added at 16 hrs (2022-08-08 03:08:11 GMT)
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Another term you may wish to consider is rebellious. For example: She rebelled against all of the values she was raised with to live a life of sin / to live as she pleased / etc.
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : What word do you suggest for men who behave in exactly the same way? /What context would that be and in what country?
2 mins
The question is specifically about women in a particular cultural context.//The Asker addresses this in the discussion box.
agree Daryo : "loose" would be the nearest.
5 hrs
Thank you for your input.
agree Tony M : "loose" as I suggested some time ago in discussion. I'd avoid 'promiscuous', which has a particular and always sexual connotation, suggesting in particular multiple sexual partners. As we've all been saying, more context is needed.
8 hrs
Thank you, Tony. The need for more context is one thing we can definitely all agree on.
neutral Victoria Britten : These are three - quite different - terms!
20 hrs
They are meant to present a wide range of options, depending on the overall tone and purpose of the text.
Something went wrong...
+1
22 hrs

free spirit

open mind(ed) women
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway : With free spirit. Even if they are hated and despised in some societies, this is what they are: free spirits.
44 mins
Something went wrong...
1 day 8 hrs

loose woman

libertine/ free spirit/unchaste woman => loose woman

loose woman - Wiktionaryhttps://en.wiktionary.org › wiki › loose_woman
Noun. loose woman (plural loose women) A sexually promiscuous woman;

Loose woman - The Free Dictionaryhttps://www.thefreedictionary.com › loose+woman
1. loose woman - a woman adulterer. adulteress, fornicatress, hussy, strumpet, trollop, jade, slut.

What does it mean if someone is loose?
sexually promiscuous or immoral; unchaste.
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