Jan 29, 2022 16:12
2 yrs ago
52 viewers *
French term

objectiver

French to English Law/Patents Law (general)
Appeal by a bank which was found to be negligent since it allowed a large bank transfer to take place as ordered by a couple, (the "AAA" spouses), to Romania. It turns out this was fraudulent. The couple tried to make a second large payment, but the fraud was then identified by the bank after it contacted the notary handling the couple's property purchase, so the second transfer never took place.

The bank is now the appellant and this is part of its pleadings.

"- qu'en l'espèce elle a bien exécuté l'ordre de virement donné de manière irrévocable non frauduleusement altéré et provenant bien des époux AAA, que le virement sollicité à destination de la Roumanie ne constituait nullement une anomalie intellectuelle exigeant qu'elle exerce une vigilance quelconque, Mme AAA ne lui ayant au demeurant pas fait part de ce que l'objet du virement était une avance sur une opération immobilière, que l'ordre était formellement parfait et que le compte était créditeur, que ce n'est que lors de la demande du second virement qu'elle a découvert qu'il était illogiquement destiné à une opération immobilière en France, que la pratique bancaire des époux AAA ne pouvait lui être connue compte tenu de l'ouverture récente du compte et qu'elle n'est pas plus objectivée à l'heure actuelle,"

"Elle" in this case seems to refer to the bank (marginally it might apply to ouverture or even opération immobilière). There are no other clues before or after. Bear in mind that with this kind of summarised report of pleadings each "que" introduces a phrase which is usually a sentence in its own right, so for the moment I assume the last bit is a self-contained phrase.

I have "assess objectively" in my vocab database for this. I don't know what this phrase is really saying.

Discussion

Steve Robbie Jan 30, 2022:
In plainer English: the bank could not have known Mr & Ms AAA's banking habits at the time and there is no more of a track record now.
Bourth Jan 29, 2022:
As ph-b says "Elle" is the "pratique bancaire" which, even to date, it has not been possible to objectively appraise.
ph-b (X) Jan 29, 2022:
objectiver Transformer en réalité objective, susceptible d'étude objective (Le Grand Robert de la langue française) Elle refers to la pratique. AAA's banking practices couldn't be known to the bank because the account had been opened only recently and because said practices have still not "materialised", to use AllegroTrans's word, i.e. have still not been (=pas plus [aujourd'hui]) transformées en réalité objective susceptibles d'être étudiées.

Proposed translations

+3
1 hr
Selected

to become evident/to materialise

oooh what a horrible verbose paragraph.
Is there such a thing as "plain French" in the legal system?
I think it's saying that the frudulent nature of the transaction had not become evident/materialised at the time
Peer comment(s):

agree Adrian MM. : - certainly within the Swiss or *Lux* Franco-German parameters of 'objektivieren' meaning to externalis/ze: source-country ? BTW ! https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/insurance/28810...
1 hr
thanks
agree ph-b (X) : See discussion.
1 hr
thanks
agree Eliza Hall : I would just say "evident": Their banking practices are no more evident as of the present day.
1 day 21 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
11 hrs

substantiate

This is a common legal term that fits the bill.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Adrian MM. : - more specifically, it's a term in the Anglo-Am. law of evidence and that would still need to be prefaced with objectively vs. subjectively.
8 hrs
so "substantite objectively" then 😉
neutral Eliza Hall : To substantiate something is to prove it or provide evidence tending to prove it (no need for obj/subj as Adrian suggested). It's what a party does to prove its case, so not the right term here. https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Substantiate
1 day 11 hrs
it's a party that is speaking saying that the practices of the bank account holders practices could not be substantiated and still cannot be
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