Nov 24, 2021 13:35
2 yrs ago
41 viewers *
French term
prestations sans assurance
French to English
Bus/Financial
Accounting
Engagement letter offering "Solution paie & RH". The letter states that it is a contract.
"Nature, objectif et limites de la mission
L'objectif d'une mission d’assistance en matière sociale consiste à produire les écritures de salaires et charges sociales correspondantes et en amont à effectuer tous les travaux préparatoires nécessaires à cet effet.
Notre mission n’a pas pour objectif de déceler des erreurs, actes illégaux ou autres irrégularités pouvant ou ayant eu lieu dans votre entité.
La mission d’assistance en matière sociale s’inscrit parmi des prestations sans assurance à l’issue desquelles notre cabinet n’exprime pas d’opinion."
"2- DEFINITION DE LA MISSION
Les travaux incombant à notre cabinet sont détaillés dans la lettre de mission et ses annexes et sont strictement limités à son contenu.
Toute mission ou prestation complémentaire devra faire l’objet d’une information préalable du client afin que celui-ci soit en mesure de manifester son accord.
L'objectif d'une mission d’assistance en matière sociale consiste pour notre cabinet à établir la paie et les déclarations liées et en amont à effectuer tous les travaux préparatoires nécessaires à cet effet.
Cette mission n’a pas pour objectif de déceler des erreurs, actes illégaux ou autres irrégularités pouvant ou ayant eu lieu dans votre entité.
La mission d’assistance en matière sociale est une mission de prestations de services sans expression d’assurance vise à mettre en œuvre les procédures précisées dans la lettre de mission et de faire part dans un rapport des constats issus des travaux de notre cabinet."
I wonder what this means? "Unguaranteed services"? The second formulation seems to rule out the possibility that this might relate to services which are "insured" in some way. I suspect someone familiar with accounting and payroll (are you there Rob Grayson???) might be able to say what this is.
"Nature, objectif et limites de la mission
L'objectif d'une mission d’assistance en matière sociale consiste à produire les écritures de salaires et charges sociales correspondantes et en amont à effectuer tous les travaux préparatoires nécessaires à cet effet.
Notre mission n’a pas pour objectif de déceler des erreurs, actes illégaux ou autres irrégularités pouvant ou ayant eu lieu dans votre entité.
La mission d’assistance en matière sociale s’inscrit parmi des prestations sans assurance à l’issue desquelles notre cabinet n’exprime pas d’opinion."
"2- DEFINITION DE LA MISSION
Les travaux incombant à notre cabinet sont détaillés dans la lettre de mission et ses annexes et sont strictement limités à son contenu.
Toute mission ou prestation complémentaire devra faire l’objet d’une information préalable du client afin que celui-ci soit en mesure de manifester son accord.
L'objectif d'une mission d’assistance en matière sociale consiste pour notre cabinet à établir la paie et les déclarations liées et en amont à effectuer tous les travaux préparatoires nécessaires à cet effet.
Cette mission n’a pas pour objectif de déceler des erreurs, actes illégaux ou autres irrégularités pouvant ou ayant eu lieu dans votre entité.
La mission d’assistance en matière sociale est une mission de prestations de services sans expression d’assurance vise à mettre en œuvre les procédures précisées dans la lettre de mission et de faire part dans un rapport des constats issus des travaux de notre cabinet."
I wonder what this means? "Unguaranteed services"? The second formulation seems to rule out the possibility that this might relate to services which are "insured" in some way. I suspect someone familiar with accounting and payroll (are you there Rob Grayson???) might be able to say what this is.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+4
49 mins
Steve Robbie
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Expertise, accuracy and style
Native in: English 
Works in: German to English, French to English, Dutch to English
Related KudoZ points
:
12
Selected
non-assurance service
"Assurance" in French from the site linked by Emmanuella:
Le cadre de référence distingue trois grandes natures de missions:
les missions normalisées qui donnent lieu à une expression d’assurance de la part du professionnel comptable;
les missions normalisées qui ne donnent pas lieu à une expression d’assurance ;
les autres missions et prestations non normalisées.
https://www.nextcompta.com/cadre-de-reference-des-missions-d...
From the link posted by Phil (from an accounting newsletter)
Il n’y a pas de norme spécifique, il s’agira donc plutôt d’autres prestations sans assurance fournies à l’entité (pas d’expression d’opinion).
Note that for accountants, "expressing an opinion" specifically means an audit opinion or similar.
And in English:
The term non-assurance services is used throughout the Code when referring to engagements that do not meet the definition of an assurance engagement. An assurance engagement is an engagement in which a professional accountant in public practice (PAPP) expresses a conclusion designed to enhance the degree of confidence of the intended users other than the responsible party about the outcome of the evaluation or measurement of a subject matter against criteria.
https://www.ifac.org/system/files/publications/files/Non-ass...
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Note added at 53 mins (2021-11-24 14:29:39 GMT)
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Generally, "assurance" is the term used by accountancy firms in English and French to refer to engagements where the firm expresses a formal audit opinion or similar.
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Note added at 58 mins (2021-11-24 14:33:51 GMT)
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Large accounting firms will usually list "Audit and assurance" as one of their main service lines on their website. (Try KPMG, for instance).
If you need further confirmation re "non-assurance", try searching for "non-assurance" + "engagement" or "assignment".
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Note added at 19 hrs (2021-11-25 08:41:25 GMT)
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To asker: I was a Chartered Accountant in a previous career.
The above was hastily cobbled together while I was busy with something else, so it could have been clearer.
The basic point is that providing audit opinions and other forms of "assurance" is the core business of an audit firm. This requires objectivity (or "independence"), which can be compromised if the firm also provides other paid services to the same clients. Hence a distinction is drawn between "assurance" and "non-assurance" services, and there are tight restrictions on the provision of "non-assurance" services to "assurance" clients.
You can substitute "audit" for "assurance" in all the above, but technically auditing refers to full-scale audits of financial statements and nothing else. Less thorough investigations (e.g. on interim accounts) are referred to by other names, such as "review", and are bracketed together as assurance work.
Le cadre de référence distingue trois grandes natures de missions:
les missions normalisées qui donnent lieu à une expression d’assurance de la part du professionnel comptable;
les missions normalisées qui ne donnent pas lieu à une expression d’assurance ;
les autres missions et prestations non normalisées.
https://www.nextcompta.com/cadre-de-reference-des-missions-d...
From the link posted by Phil (from an accounting newsletter)
Il n’y a pas de norme spécifique, il s’agira donc plutôt d’autres prestations sans assurance fournies à l’entité (pas d’expression d’opinion).
Note that for accountants, "expressing an opinion" specifically means an audit opinion or similar.
And in English:
The term non-assurance services is used throughout the Code when referring to engagements that do not meet the definition of an assurance engagement. An assurance engagement is an engagement in which a professional accountant in public practice (PAPP) expresses a conclusion designed to enhance the degree of confidence of the intended users other than the responsible party about the outcome of the evaluation or measurement of a subject matter against criteria.
https://www.ifac.org/system/files/publications/files/Non-ass...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 53 mins (2021-11-24 14:29:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Generally, "assurance" is the term used by accountancy firms in English and French to refer to engagements where the firm expresses a formal audit opinion or similar.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 58 mins (2021-11-24 14:33:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Large accounting firms will usually list "Audit and assurance" as one of their main service lines on their website. (Try KPMG, for instance).
If you need further confirmation re "non-assurance", try searching for "non-assurance" + "engagement" or "assignment".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2021-11-25 08:41:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
To asker: I was a Chartered Accountant in a previous career.
The above was hastily cobbled together while I was busy with something else, so it could have been clearer.
The basic point is that providing audit opinions and other forms of "assurance" is the core business of an audit firm. This requires objectivity (or "independence"), which can be compromised if the firm also provides other paid services to the same clients. Hence a distinction is drawn between "assurance" and "non-assurance" services, and there are tight restrictions on the provision of "non-assurance" services to "assurance" clients.
You can substitute "audit" for "assurance" in all the above, but technically auditing refers to full-scale audits of financial statements and nothing else. Less thorough investigations (e.g. on interim accounts) are referred to by other names, such as "review", and are bracketed together as assurance work.
Note from asker:
| You sound like an authoritative voice. And thanks for all this related info. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Emmanuella
0 min
|
| agree |
Julien Lahaie
: ex: Our contract is limited to provide a payroll accounting service only, a non-assurance service. This is not at audit.
31 mins
|
| agree |
Rob Grayson
40 mins
|
| neutral |
Francois Boye
: A service isn't the English for 'prestation". Therefore, you should write: 'provision of non-assurance services"
https://www.iesbaecode.org/2020/part/4a/600
4 hrs
|
| agree |
AllegroTrans
4 days
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-1
11 mins
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
Works in field
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
89
non-binding advice
I think the answer is there in your first example: "à l’issue desquelles notre cabinet n’exprime pas d’opinion."
Here's another example:
Il n’y a pas de norme spécifique, il s’agira donc plutôt d’autres prestations sans assurance fournies à l’entité (pas d’expression d’opinion)
http://lefrancilien.oec-paris.fr/deontologie-et-normes-repon...
So they won't quote chapter and verse, they'll just give you an informal, nonlegal opinion.
Here's another example:
Il n’y a pas de norme spécifique, il s’agira donc plutôt d’autres prestations sans assurance fournies à l’entité (pas d’expression d’opinion)
http://lefrancilien.oec-paris.fr/deontologie-et-normes-repon...
So they won't quote chapter and verse, they'll just give you an informal, nonlegal opinion.
Note from asker:
| Convincing, thanks. |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: if you scratch a bit available data, these accountants are NOT offering ANY advice.
1 day 23 hrs
|
49 mins
on notice
Financial statement prepared by an accounting firm can be of different types: Notice to reader (kind of as is), Review Engagement Report or Verified. Anyone can write Notice to reader reports, and a Certified Accountant/auditor for verified.
In this case, the auditor cannot verify the mission of the Non-Profit because there are no generally accepted accounting principle for the organization's classification. Any comments the auditor writes that cannot be verified by accepted accounting principles, such as the Mission Statement here, is said to be "on notice". (Refers to a notice to the reader):
"Notice-to-reader statements are simply compilations of information provided by the company. The information undergoes no tests and the accountant preparing them offers no opinion or assurance. Accordingly, they simply put the readers “on notice.”"
In this case, the auditor cannot verify the mission of the Non-Profit because there are no generally accepted accounting principle for the organization's classification. Any comments the auditor writes that cannot be verified by accepted accounting principles, such as the Mission Statement here, is said to be "on notice". (Refers to a notice to the reader):
"Notice-to-reader statements are simply compilations of information provided by the company. The information undergoes no tests and the accountant preparing them offers no opinion or assurance. Accordingly, they simply put the readers “on notice.”"
Example sentence:
The mission of an organization providing social welfare assistance is "on notice". (thus no comment).
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Steve Robbie
: This refers strictly to engagements that involve issuing of a set of financial statements. That is is not the case with a payroll service.
14 mins
|
|
Agreed. Payroll would fall under non-assurance services
|
|
| neutral |
Rob Grayson
: What Steve Robbie said
40 mins
|
1 hr
non-audit services
I agree with the generality of previous comments. It seems to me the contract is stressing that the objective of the services is not to identify mistakes, fraud or other types of irregularity or express any sort of opinion or give any comfort of whatever nature with regard to the payroll or any other financial matters. This is what a financial audit of the year end accounts would do. Therefore, "non-audit" would be an appropriate description of the services.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Steve Robbie
: That's quite right but "assurance" is slightly broader in meaning that "audit" (because it also covers mid-year reviews etc.). I would therefore be inclined to retain it, especially as "assurance" in this sense is already an anglicism.
4 mins
|
| neutral |
Julien Lahaie
: I think that the service provider, being a firm of certified accountants, wants to stress in the contract that their mission engagement to the client is only a non-assurance service. They only retained a payroll service, not an audit.
21 mins
|
2 days 3 mins
French term (edited):
prestations (comptables) sans assurance
(accounting) services provided without verification
"Nature, objectif et limites de la mission
L'objectif d'une mission d’assistance en matière sociale consiste à produire les écritures de salaires et charges sociales correspondantes et en amont à effectuer tous les travaux préparatoires nécessaires à cet effet.
Notre mission n’a pas pour objectif de déceler des erreurs, actes illégaux ou autres irrégularités pouvant ou ayant eu lieu dans votre entité.
La mission d’assistance en matière sociale s’inscrit parmi des prestations sans assurance à l’issue desquelles notre cabinet n’exprime pas d’opinion."
L'objectif d'une mission d’assistance en matière sociale consiste à produire les écritures de salaires et charges sociales ...
=>
it's ONLY about processing numbers, no "advice/opinion" of any kind to be offered, with or without any "guaranty / assurance" - that would be irrelevant for a non-existing "advice/opinion"
Notre mission n’a pas pour objectif de déceler des erreurs, actes illégaux ou autres irrégularités pouvant ou ayant eu lieu dans votre entité.
=>
accounting data will be used "as supplied by the client" - without any verification.
see:
Services Provided without Verification
Provide an original and substantive response to the questions posed in your Journal i na minimum of 200 words.After reading and discussing how important it is for auditors to gather evidence to backup client claims, you are now introduced to accounting services where it is unnecessary to verify management’s information.
...
https://www.coursehero.com/file/13379710/audit-week-9/
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: Right idea - wrong terminology
2 days 8 hrs
|
|
"wrong terminology"? You mean that same terminology that's used in teaching accounting??? Would you care to offer your improvement to the course material? Really puzzled! Sounds like a pretty accurate description of services offered to me...
|
19 hrs
Lisa Rosengard
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
experienced and well qualified linguist
Native in: English (Variant: UK)
Works in: Spanish to English, English, Spanish, and 3 more.
benefits without insurance
The benefits could be services without any guarantee, that is they are uninsured.
(Les prestations sans assurances sont des bénéfices ou bien des services sans garantie, c'est à dire qu'ils n'ont pas d'assurances.)
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Note added at 5 days (2021-11-29 20:33:28 GMT)
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Information from the source text: 'There's a mission with objectives to provide social assistance. It seeks to produce written accounts of incomes and corresponding social expenses, as well as upward plans to carry out the necessary preparations. The mission does not seek to identify errors, illegalities or other irregularities. The objectives to provide social assistance are listed among other non-guaranteed benefits (or benefits without insurance), and on payment of such, the cabinet remains impartial (without an opinion).'
(Les prestations sans assurances sont des bénéfices ou bien des services sans garantie, c'est à dire qu'ils n'ont pas d'assurances.)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 days (2021-11-29 20:33:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Information from the source text: 'There's a mission with objectives to provide social assistance. It seeks to produce written accounts of incomes and corresponding social expenses, as well as upward plans to carry out the necessary preparations. The mission does not seek to identify errors, illegalities or other irregularities. The objectives to provide social assistance are listed among other non-guaranteed benefits (or benefits without insurance), and on payment of such, the cabinet remains impartial (without an opinion).'
Discussion
"Notice-to-reader statements are simply compilations of information provided by the company. The information undergoes no tests and the accountant preparing them offers no opinion or assurance. Accordingly, they simply put the readers “on notice.”"
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/article_jo/JORFARTI00003...
("Assurance" is the anglo term for audit opinions and similar services, which has been adopted into French by audit firms)
Whether there's a corresponding standard expression in EN, I have no idea.