Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
secteur associatif gestionnaire
English translation:
non-profit (or voluntary) sector managing social and medico-social facilities and services
Added to glossary by
Gladis Audi, DipTrans
Jan 26, 2021 23:10
3 yrs ago
44 viewers *
French term
Norway
secteur associatif gestionnaire
French to English
Social Sciences
Government / Politics
Child welfare protection
Hi all,
I'm translating a report about the French child welfare protection system from French (France) into English (UK) and am having issues with the phrase above. Please see below for context:
'Cette politique fait l’objet d’une organisation complexe qui fait intervenir de multiples acteurs. Elle peut être assurée soit sous une forme administrative (sur décision du président du conseil départemental, avec l’accord des familles), soit sous une forme judiciaire (sur décision du juge des enfants se prononçant en matière civile). Dans les faits, le juge des enfants est à l’origine de 75 % des décisions de prise en charge. Cette politique est enfin mise en œuvre très majoritairement par le secteur associatif gestionnaire des établissements et services sociaux et médico-sociaux.'
I know that 'secteur associatif' means 'voluntary/non-profit sector', but I don't know how 'gestionnaire' fits in. Could anyone help please?
Thanks in advance for your answers! :)
I'm translating a report about the French child welfare protection system from French (France) into English (UK) and am having issues with the phrase above. Please see below for context:
'Cette politique fait l’objet d’une organisation complexe qui fait intervenir de multiples acteurs. Elle peut être assurée soit sous une forme administrative (sur décision du président du conseil départemental, avec l’accord des familles), soit sous une forme judiciaire (sur décision du juge des enfants se prononçant en matière civile). Dans les faits, le juge des enfants est à l’origine de 75 % des décisions de prise en charge. Cette politique est enfin mise en œuvre très majoritairement par le secteur associatif gestionnaire des établissements et services sociaux et médico-sociaux.'
I know that 'secteur associatif' means 'voluntary/non-profit sector', but I don't know how 'gestionnaire' fits in. Could anyone help please?
Thanks in advance for your answers! :)
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Jan 20, 2023 16:25: Gladis Audi, DipTrans Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+4
6 hrs
Gladis Audi, DipTrans
Netherlands
Netherlands
Native in French
Specializes in field
Netherlands
EN>FR Int Org/Dev/Coop, Legal
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France)
Works in: English to French, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Selected
non-profit (or voluntary) sector managing social and medico-social facilities and services
Le secteur associatif, c'est le non-profit ou voluntary sector.
Ex.
[...] d’une part, les écoles et les établissements scolaires, et d’autre part, les spécialistes et partenaires de l’administration publique et le secteur associatif
[...] help to establish cooperation between schools and school facilities, on the one hand, and experts and partners from public administration and the non-profit sector, on the other hand
Ex.
[...] d’une part, les écoles et les établissements scolaires, et d’autre part, les spécialistes et partenaires de l’administration publique et le secteur associatif
[...] help to establish cooperation between schools and school facilities, on the one hand, and experts and partners from public administration and the non-profit sector, on the other hand
Example sentence:
Mener des actions de formation auprès des professionnels du secteur public et du secteur associatif dans le domaine de la protection des droits
Provide training in rights protection for professionals in the public and voluntary sectors;
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
liz askew
: I would leave out (voluntary).
2 hrs
|
|
Thank you Liz :)
|
|
| agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: I would leave out "voluntary" here too.
3 hrs
|
|
Thank you Nikki :)
|
|
| agree |
Z-Translations Translator
6 hrs
|
|
Merci
|
|
| neutral |
philgoddard
: "Social and medico-social" is awkward, and sounds like a translation.
8 hrs
|
|
If I was translating, I would agree, except that the CRPD did not have any problem using it in an original English text, published under symbol CRPD/C/FRA/Q/1, nor ECOSOC published under symbol E/C.12/FRA/4/
|
|
| agree |
Conor McAuley
9 hrs
|
|
Merci :)
|
|
| neutral |
Francois Boye
: non profit is not necessarily associative: https://www.boardeffect.com/blog/whats-difference-associatio...
10 hrs
|
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: I don't think either non-profit or voluntary is meant here
14 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
1 hr
AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Works in field
United Kingdom
Sensible solutions
Native in: English (Variant: Wessexois) 
Works in: French to English, English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
49
French term (edited):
secteur associatif gestionnaire des établissements et services sociaux et médico-sociaux
medico-social sector
Please see my comment in DBox
The French expression is very unwieldy and can be simplified in my opinion
Health - Medico-social sector - Cornet Vincent Segurel
www.cvs-avocats.com › expertises › health-medico-soci...
and the medico-social sector, (institutes caring for children, medico-psychological teaching centres, medical education institutes, advanced schools for ...
Management in the Medico-social Sector: The Great Hodge ...
www.cairn-int.info › article-E_EMPA_078_0020--man...
Management in the Medico-social Sector: The Great Hodge-Podge; Suivre cet auteur Philippe Jourdy; In Empan Volume 78, Issue 2, 2010, pages 20 to 22.
by P Jourdy · 2010
The French expression is very unwieldy and can be simplified in my opinion
Health - Medico-social sector - Cornet Vincent Segurel
www.cvs-avocats.com › expertises › health-medico-soci...
and the medico-social sector, (institutes caring for children, medico-psychological teaching centres, medical education institutes, advanced schools for ...
Management in the Medico-social Sector: The Great Hodge ...
www.cairn-int.info › article-E_EMPA_078_0020--man...
Management in the Medico-social Sector: The Great Hodge-Podge; Suivre cet auteur Philippe Jourdy; In Empan Volume 78, Issue 2, 2010, pages 20 to 22.
by P Jourdy · 2010
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
philgoddard
: I agree that it's unwieldy, but this ignores "associatif", and your references are translations.
14 hrs
|
|
well if "associatif gestionnaire" means "managing" (the sector), I don't think anything is lost by omitting this; I somehow think there are profit-making entities in the French medical and care sector
|
15 hrs
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
42
the nonprofit medical and social services sector
I think this is more concise and natural sounding than the two previous suggestions.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2021-01-27 20:18:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Associatif
Relatif à une association, aux ***associations régies par la loi de 1901***, au mouvement associatif.
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/associatif/585...
En droit français des associations, l'expression « association loi de 1901 » désigne une association ***à but non lucratif*** qui relève de la loi du 1er juillet 19011 et du décret du 16 août 19012
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_loi_de_1901
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2021-01-27 20:18:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Associatif
Relatif à une association, aux ***associations régies par la loi de 1901***, au mouvement associatif.
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/associatif/585...
En droit français des associations, l'expression « association loi de 1901 » désigne une association ***à but non lucratif*** qui relève de la loi du 1er juillet 19011 et du décret du 16 août 19012
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_loi_de_1901
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
liz askew
: this is wrong though, since it is the "not-for-profit" associations that manage the medical and social sector.
3 hrs
|
|
"Nonprofit" is the same as "not for profit".
|
1 day 14 hrs
community organizations providing [...]
As others have pointed out, secteur associatif is one animal and gestionnaire des établissements et services sociaux et médico-sociaux another.
The FR wording is very impersonal and bureaucratic, treating all administrative, judicial and charitable agents as lumped entities. For clarity's sake I think it might help to reword the FR to associations qui fournissent des services sociaux et médico-sociaux and use that as your starting point.
That reduces the problem to associations which I for one often struggle to translate accurately, their role in France being central and somewhat different to Anglophone countries. Their nonprofit status is not their chief characteristic; rather it's their voluntary civic engagement nature and the social services they provide ("social" in the broader French sense). One might call them secular charities. Many are subsidized by the State and all are heavily regulated. One could almost think of them as the State outsourcing welfare and care services which are more centralized in the UK.
So I wonder if "community organizations" might be a useful way to convey the full scope of what such associations do in the context of child welfare. By itself it's a little vague, but it can be made more specific in the rest of the sentence and it has the advantage of being readily understood.
Of course it all depends on the text as a whole and how specific you can be in contrast to the FR.
(The second link relates to the US, so maybe of limited use to a UK context, but it begins with "The child welfare system is not a single entity" which sounds like a good thing to bear in mind when trying to understand the FR and UK systems.)
The FR wording is very impersonal and bureaucratic, treating all administrative, judicial and charitable agents as lumped entities. For clarity's sake I think it might help to reword the FR to associations qui fournissent des services sociaux et médico-sociaux and use that as your starting point.
That reduces the problem to associations which I for one often struggle to translate accurately, their role in France being central and somewhat different to Anglophone countries. Their nonprofit status is not their chief characteristic; rather it's their voluntary civic engagement nature and the social services they provide ("social" in the broader French sense). One might call them secular charities. Many are subsidized by the State and all are heavily regulated. One could almost think of them as the State outsourcing welfare and care services which are more centralized in the UK.
So I wonder if "community organizations" might be a useful way to convey the full scope of what such associations do in the context of child welfare. By itself it's a little vague, but it can be made more specific in the rest of the sentence and it has the advantage of being readily understood.
Of course it all depends on the text as a whole and how specific you can be in contrast to the FR.
(The second link relates to the US, so maybe of limited use to a UK context, but it begins with "The child welfare system is not a single entity" which sounds like a good thing to bear in mind when trying to understand the FR and UK systems.)
Example sentence:
[It] is then carried out for the most part by community organizations providing social and medical services.
[It] is then carried out for the most part by community organizations providing child welfare services.
Reference comments
4 hrs
Reference:
https://fonda.asso.fr/ressources/contraintes-des-marches-et-projets-associatifs
Extract:
Qu’est-ce qu’une « association gestionnaire » ?
Il n’existe pas de définition juridique des « associations gestionnaires ». C’est l’observation empirique qui a permis de distinguer divers types d’associations : des associations plus ou moins professionnalisées et gestionnaires de moyens économiques, des associations de type militant, de rencontre ou d’influence. Une « association gestionnaire », grande ou petite, exerce bien une activité économique puisqu’elle participe au circuit économique, c’est-à-dire au flux de production de biens et services échangés sur divers types de marché, ainsi qu’au flux de revenus salariaux qui en est la contrepartie. Elle participe aussi au circuit financier par la gestion de son budget, de sa trésorerie, par ses placements financiers ou par ses emprunts.
Qu’est-ce qu’une « association gestionnaire » ?
Il n’existe pas de définition juridique des « associations gestionnaires ». C’est l’observation empirique qui a permis de distinguer divers types d’associations : des associations plus ou moins professionnalisées et gestionnaires de moyens économiques, des associations de type militant, de rencontre ou d’influence. Une « association gestionnaire », grande ou petite, exerce bien une activité économique puisqu’elle participe au circuit économique, c’est-à-dire au flux de production de biens et services échangés sur divers types de marché, ainsi qu’au flux de revenus salariaux qui en est la contrepartie. Elle participe aussi au circuit financier par la gestion de son budget, de sa trésorerie, par ses placements financiers ou par ses emprunts.
9 hrs
Reference:
se
Créer une asbl | Step Entreprendrewww.stepentreprendre.be › creer-une...
Translate this page
Le secteur associatif belge est dense et varié. Créer une association sans but lucratif est effet assez simple et permet de constituer un cadre juridique dans ...
not-for-profit organisation?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2021-01-27 08:46:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
La coopération dans le secteur social et médico-social ... - Cairnwww.cairn.info › revue-vie-sociale-2...
Translate this page
Un constat qui ne peut être que partagé dans le secteur social et médico-social, où ****le secteur associatif est le principal gestionnaire**** d'établissements et services ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2021-01-27 08:47:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
gestionnaire | French to English | Finance (general) - ProZ.comwww.proz.com › finance-general › 1266063-gestionnaire
25 Feb 2006 — French term or phrase: gestionnaire. English translation: 1) task manager 2) management agency 3)manager /project manager. Entered by ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2021-01-27 08:48:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Not-for-profit in Belgium | Law firm and lawyer rankings from ...www.legal500.com › belgium › not-for-profit
Impact lawyers is a boutique firm focused on serving not-for-profit associations, social enterprises and impact investors. It was founded in February 2019 by a ...
Category:Non-profit organisations based in Belgium - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Category:Non-profit_organis...
Pages in category "Non-profit organisations based in Belgium". The following 47 pages are in this category, out of 47 total. This list may not reflect recent ...
Translate this page
Le secteur associatif belge est dense et varié. Créer une association sans but lucratif est effet assez simple et permet de constituer un cadre juridique dans ...
not-for-profit organisation?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2021-01-27 08:46:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
La coopération dans le secteur social et médico-social ... - Cairnwww.cairn.info › revue-vie-sociale-2...
Translate this page
Un constat qui ne peut être que partagé dans le secteur social et médico-social, où ****le secteur associatif est le principal gestionnaire**** d'établissements et services ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2021-01-27 08:47:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
gestionnaire | French to English | Finance (general) - ProZ.comwww.proz.com › finance-general › 1266063-gestionnaire
25 Feb 2006 — French term or phrase: gestionnaire. English translation: 1) task manager 2) management agency 3)manager /project manager. Entered by ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2021-01-27 08:48:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Not-for-profit in Belgium | Law firm and lawyer rankings from ...www.legal500.com › belgium › not-for-profit
Impact lawyers is a boutique firm focused on serving not-for-profit associations, social enterprises and impact investors. It was founded in February 2019 by a ...
Category:Non-profit organisations based in Belgium - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org › wiki › Category:Non-profit_organis...
Pages in category "Non-profit organisations based in Belgium". The following 47 pages are in this category, out of 47 total. This list may not reflect recent ...
Discussion
https://www.legalplace.fr/guides/association-loi-1901-benefi...
And no, of course it doesn't mean that the entire sector is run by nonprofits. Part of it is, and that's what they're referring to.
I'm not 100% convinced that it is "non-profit". Firstly as I live in France where associations can make profits, secondly because of the reference I gave and thirdly 'cos it seems strange to me that the entire social and medico-social sector is governed by non-profit making organisations.
"gestionnaire" --> "qui gère".