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origine certifiée et contrôlée

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

Indication Géographique Protégée (IGP) "Canard à foie gras du Périgord".

English translation:

Protected Geographical Indication (PGI): "Foie gras duck from Périgord"

Added to glossary by Daryo
Oct 24, 2018 08:14
5 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

canard à foie gras du Périgord

Non-PRO French to English Marketing Cooking / Culinary agroalimentaire
Bonjour à tous,

je traduis actuellement un texte expliquant la qualité du foie gras à travers tout un tas de normes et certifications.
Parmi celles-ci figure l'IGP "canard à foie gras du Périgord".

Quelle est l'expression consacrée en anglais, le savez-vous ?

Merci par avance pour vos lumières,

Santillane
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 Protected Designation of Origin (PDO): "foie gras duck from Périgord"
4 fattened duck from Périgord
5 -1 Périgord foie-gras fattening duck
5 -1 duck foie gras from Périgord
4 -2 foie gras duck-breeding from Périgord
References
Foie gras controversy
dead or alive?
Change log

Oct 24, 2018 10:10: Rachel Fell changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Nov 24, 2018 03:40: Daryo changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/1978847">Santillane van-elslande's</a> old entry - "canard à foie gras du Périgord"" to ""Protected Designation of Origin (PDO): \"foie gras duck from Périgord\"""

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (1): Daryo

Non-PRO (3): Carol Gullidge, Catharine Cellier-Smart, Rachel Fell

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Discussion

Daryo Oct 30, 2018:
@ Charles Davis you are right. Thanks for the correction.
Charles Davis Oct 24, 2018:
IGP (PGI) versus PDO (AOP) This is not part of the question, but just to be clear: there are three different European indications of geographical origin and traditional specialities. Their names in English are:

Protected designation of origin (PDO)
Protected geographical indication (PGI)
Traditional specialities guaranteed (TSG)

and in French:
Appellation d'origine protégée (AOP)
Indication géographique protégée (IGP)
Spécialités traditionnelles garanties (STG)

This is a PGI/IGP, not a PDO/AOP.

The difference is slight; the main one is that PDO/AOP has to be entirely manufactured within the designated region, whereas PGI/IGP need only be partially manufactured within the designated region.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN-FR/TXT/?uri=CELEX...
https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farming-fisheries/food-safety...
Charles Davis Oct 24, 2018:
@Daryo No, I quite agree, and my motive for spending time here is more to learn (from my own research and from others) than to teach. But if you're wrong, the sooner you find out, the better.

Going back to the peer comment thing for a moment: I think it would be very unfair to suggest that those who agreed with my suggestion were unqualified to do so, or that they were doing so just because it was me. They are all highly competent and reliable colleagues. Presumably they agreed with my argument, but, like me, weren't aware of that crucial fact that undermined it (which is quite easy to miss if you're not already aware of it).
Daryo Oct 24, 2018:
@Charles Davis searching for the right answer is not "waste of time", even if occasionally you go in the wrong direction. You can always learn from your mistakes, and so employ a more efficient method next time.
Tony M Oct 24, 2018:
@ Sheila Once you have posted an answer, you can no longer post a reference; the only thing you can do is what you did: add the references as an 'added note'
Charles Davis Oct 24, 2018:
@Sheila The fault is mine; I did open your reference, but I didn't spot the clue hidden there: "des gammes de produits", not just one product. Though if all of those products were forms of foie-gras, I could still have held out!
Sheila Wilson Oct 24, 2018:
Prevented from posting a reference It wouldn't let me post a reference when I wanted to so I had to rather hide it in my own answer area. I referred to it in your reply (now deleted) to my answer, Charles but I don't think I thought to refer to it in your own answer box.
Daryo Oct 24, 2018:
that kind of games even turn into a pure farce when some people go "tactically agreeing" in language pairs they know strictly nothing about - wouldn't probably even be capable of recognising the language, let alone understand it enough to make any comment - (assuming they suddenly learned to read Serbian Cyrillic ...) - a very interesting/creative way of helping fellow translators looking for the right answer to their question, not for a free game show ...
Charles Davis Oct 24, 2018:
@Tony Thanks! You're right in general about peer comments, and it's very annoying, though I don't feel there have been strategic or personalised peer comments here. I honestly don't mind being disagreed when those who do so convince me I'm wrong; on the contrary, I'm grateful to be put right. The trouble here was that none of the comments I received did convince me, because all they said was "this refers to a duck". Well, any fool can see that, and I had said so at the outset. I was slightly irked at the suggestion that I wasn't even capable of understanding what "canard à foie gras" means. None of those who disagreed addressed my arguments for not translating it literally. All it needed was for someone to say "this is not just a label for foie-gras", at which point my entire argument would have crashed to the ground (as it eventually did when I discovered it for myself), and I would have withdrawn sooner. That's what I meant.
ph-b (X) Oct 24, 2018:
Allelujah! "Some people, of course, simply don't have the necessary specialist knowledge to peer comment in any kind of authoritative way; and very often, do so simply to ally themselves with this or that person (...).
Then again, there is a more destructive move by certain people to use peer comments tactically — often agreeing with any answer, right or wrong, just so as to counter another answer, which might in fact be more correct or pertinent." Or just, shall I add, because they wouldn't be seen dead agreeing - or disagreeing for that matter - with this or that person.
Tony M Oct 24, 2018:
Dear Charles I think several of us already understood it as a special duck used for foie gras — as indeed Asker had made clear.
Sadly, I think here you have highlighted a growing problem: people peer commenting for the wrong reason!
Some people, of course, simply don't have the necessary specialist knowledge to peer comment in any kind of authoritative way; and very often, do so simply to ally themselves with this or that person (such as yourself) whom they admire.
Then again, there is a more destructive move by certain people to use peer comments tactically — often agreeing with any answer, right or wrong, just so as to counter another answer, which might in fact be more correct or pertinent. This very much goes against the "presumption of good faith" that is assumed across the whole of ProZ.com.
I'm glad you have come round to seeing this question as several others of us have, and I'm only sorry I was the only one to 'disagree' with your original answer — and I think that's a first, since I know you and I are generally very much on the same wavelength :-) I did rather think I had refuted your original premise by my explanation — but perhaps I was too successful in doing so politely!
Charles Davis Oct 24, 2018:
Without wishing to seem petulant, may I add that I'm surprised and a little disappointed (though in another sense relieved) that I was left to refute my own answer, and that no one who disagreed with it made the obvious point I've mentioned: namely that my premise about this being a label used only for foie gras was false. Had it been true, my answer was perfectly defensible (I believe). But then we don't always read each others' answers. I only realised when I saw, buried in one of Tony's notes, a reference to buying magret with this label, and then went back and read the Ministry of Agriculture page more carefully. The fact remains that my answer, until I removed it, was the only one with a net number of agrees (for which I'm very grateful), despite being wrong. I say this not to claim any credit — on the contrary — but to appeal to those who have the relevant knowledge to deploy it effectively.
Charles Davis Oct 24, 2018:
In case anyone's wondering, I've withdrawn my answer because I have belatedly realised that this IGP certifies not just foie-gras but also other duck products (including rillettes, confits, terrines, pâtés, salaison). I only found it as a label for foie-gras itself, which is evidently what it's primarily but not exclusively used for. Had I realised this, I would have posted the obvious and I think unimprovable translation, which I mentioned at the beginning: "Périgord foie-gras duck". Sorry to waste everyone's time (not least my own).

Proposed translations

+1
5 hrs
French term (edited): Indication Géographique Protégée (IGP): "canard à foie gras du Périgord"
Selected

Protected Designation of Origin (PDO): "foie gras duck from Périgord"

this is a collective label for all products made from "canard à foie gras du Périgord"

so it's about products [not live animals]
(1) made from ducks
(2) of the "foie gras" producing variety
(3) entirely breed, ... ...and finally packaged in Périgord

more
https://www.terredesaveurs.com/fr/actualite/canard-foie-gras...


Indication géographique protégée

Version en français du logotype IGP de l'Union européenne.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Logo_IGP.gif

L'indication géographique protégée (IGP) est un signe d'identification de l'Union européenne qui désigne des produits dont la qualité ou la réputation est liée au lieu de production, de transformation ou d'élaboration, mais dont les ingrédients ne proviennent pas nécessairement de cette aire géographique1.

L'IGP est un dispositif légal qui garantit qu'au moins une des étapes (production, transformation ou d'élaboration) a été réalisée dans le lieu affiché par un produit1. Toutes les IGP doivent également répondre « à un cahier des charges précis » mais, contrairement à l'AOP (et sa version française l'AOC), l'IGP ne garantit pas la mise en œuvre d'un savoir-faire reconnu de producteurs locaux ni que ses ingrédients proviennent de la région concernée1.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indication_géographique_protég...


Protected designation of origin (PDO)

Protected designation of origin logo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PDO-Logo.svg

The Protected designation of origin is the name of an area, a specific place or, in exceptional cases, the name of a country, used as a designation for an agricultural product or a foodstuff,

-- which comes from such an area, place or country,
-- whose quality or properties are significantly or exclusively determined by the geographical environment, ------- including natural and human factors,
whose production, processing and preparation takes place within the determined geographical area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indications_and_t...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2018-10-25 11:24:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

sorry

-- which comes from such an area, place or country,

-- whose quality or properties are significantly or exclusively determined by the geographical environment, including natural and human factors,

-- whose production, processing and preparation takes place within the determined geographical area.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 days (2018-10-30 16:33:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


correction:

Indication Géographique Protégée (IGP): "canard à foie gras du Périgord"
=
Protected geographical indication (PGI): "foie gras duck from Périgord"

Protected geographical indication logo
The Protected geographical indication is the name of an area, a specific place or, in exceptional cases, the name of a country, used as a description of an agricultural product or a foodstuff,

-- which comes from such an area, place or country,
-- which has a specific quality, goodwill or other characteristic property, attributable to its geographical origin,
-- at least one of the stages of production, processing or preparation takes place in the area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indications_and_t...


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 days (2018-11-05 12:44:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


correction:

Indication Géographique Protégée (IGP): "canard à foie gras du Périgord"
=
Protected geographical indication (PGI): "foie gras duck from Périgord"

Protected geographical indication logo
The Protected geographical indication is the name of an area, a specific place or, in exceptional cases, the name of a country, used as a description of an agricultural product or a foodstuff,

-- which comes from such an area, place or country,
-- which has a specific quality, goodwill or other characteristic property, attributable to its geographical origin,
-- at least one of the stages of production, processing or preparation takes place in the area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_indications_and_t...
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : so you're picking up Charles' answer and references and running with it?
4 mins
I got to this question AFTER Charles removed his answer - never saw it. Can't know to which extent there is an overlap with the removed answer, but this is definitely MY version, resulting from MY methods, MY OWN interpretation of available data ...
agree Eliza Hall : Either this or "Perigord foie gras duck" would work. The region can precede "duck," see, e.g. "Perigord goose" here: https://www.foiegrasgourmet.com/en/groliere-perigord-goose-w...
2 hrs
Merci!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Finally, this is how I translated it. Thanks !"
-2
8 mins

foie gras duck-breeding from Périgord

Le terme "foie gras" est utilisé en anglais, surtout quand il s'agit de la cuisine française.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 30 minutes (2018-10-24 08:45:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Could "froie gras duck-breed from Perigord" work?
Note from asker:
Yes, foie gras is also used in English. The issue is about translating the "product" , I mean foie gras is made from a special kind of duck, meant to become foie gras after force-feeding. And there is a PGI indicating "canard à foie gras du Perigord", therefore that the duck race is for foie gras and comes from Perigord. Maybe just "foie gras duck from Perigord" would work then ?
Peer comment(s):
disagree Carol Gullidge : the question is not about breeding or the method of farming, but on what to call the type of duck (the product)// yes, I think so! Or simply omit the word "breed". Verity's version sounds fine!
13 mins
oui, vous avez raison. Could "froie gras duck-breed from Perigord" work?
agree Verity Roat : Or just foie gras duck from Perigord / Perigord foie gras (duck)
50 mins
disagree Tony M : Nothing to do with the action of breeding
2 hrs
disagree Daryo : see ref.
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

fattened duck from Périgord

You can buy these in markets all over the south of France - minus the foie gras and the magrets - as mentioned here: https://www.pays-bergerac-tourisme.com/en/discover/bergerac-...

I don't think you should refer to "Périgord duck" as that's a bit misleading. There's no such breed of duck.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2018-10-24 10:50:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Looks like I can't post a reference entry now, but here's one specifically about the IGP:
http://www.foie-gras-gers.com/foie-gras-igp-sud-ouest.aspx
Peer comment(s):
agree ph-b (X) : We all know what the poor things are fattened for, and your answer is what I thought of when I first read the question, so "agree" from a non-specialist, non-native, for what it's worth.
8 mins
Thanks. The only time I ever saw it done with my own eyes the ducks were queuing noisily for their turn, pushing others out of the way! But that was a rubber tube rather than a metal one.
disagree Tony M : This isn't necessarily a duck that's already been fattened.
13 mins
I take your point, Tony, but they do start very young and they slaughter all unsuitable birds directly after birth. Those are minced for cat food and I don't think any of these ducks that arrive at market have avoided the gavage process.
neutral Daryo : partly yes, but mostly no - taking into account the preceding part [**IGP**] it's not about live ducks, and using "foie gras" has far more "marketing value" than "fattened" // you will never please everyone - the target market counts.
4 hrs
I can't disagree with that Daryo, although foie gras actually has massive negatives too in many people's eyes. I just feel that "foie gras duck" is too open to being misunderstood as "duck foie gras"
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

Périgord foie-gras fattening duck

This refers to a type of duck from / in Périgord that is specifically used (having been bred) for fattening for the purpose of obtaining foie gras.

It is going to be fattened, but hasn't necessarily been yet. It's a type of duck.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2018-10-24 10:52:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Please read this French reference very carefully:

http://agriculture.gouv.fr/le-canard-foie-gras-du-perigord-i...

"le canard à foie gras du Périgord.
Afin de défendre la qualité et l’origine des produits issus de palmipèdes à foie gras du Périgord et d’offrir plus de transparence aux consommateurs, des éleveurs, découpeurs et conserveurs de Dordogne se sont regroupés en créant en 1993 l’Association "Foie gras du Périgord". Pour arriver à leurs fins, ils se sont associés à d’autres éleveurs, découpeurs et conserveurs du Sud-Ouest pour mettre en place une démarche de qualité rigoureuse et exigeante. Leurs efforts et leur patience sont aujourd’hui récompensés car ils bénéficient, depuis le 26 juin 2000, de l'Indication Géographique Protégée (I.G.P.) "Canard à foie gras du Périgord".

L'Origine
Les produits doivent être issus de canards élevés et gavés et abattus et découpés et cuisinés et conditionnés en Périgord. Pour cela, un système de traçabilité documentaire complet et performant à été mis en place par l’ensemble des membres de l’Association Foie Gras du Périgord."

The text goes on to make it abundantly clear that we are talking about the fowl used to produice the foies gras, and not that end product itself.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2018-10-24 10:58:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I live in or near Périgord, I have actually fattened ducks myself, and I work very closely with a number of producers of foie-gras and their professional associations, Chamber of Agriculture, etc.
I also see this label used all the time in butcher's and supermarkets — soemtimes it is even used on 'magrets', to certify that this particular magret does actually come from a proper foie-gras duck, and so isn't just any old duck breast.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2018-10-24 11:01:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Both Verity and Carole have correctly understood it the same way.

Once we have the meaning correct, then there are various different ways you might choose to express it in EN; I've never personally yet come across any 'official' translation of this term.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2018-10-24 11:29:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

ph-n perhaps has come up with the best solution to the cumbersome wording — simply to leave out the 'fattening'

My only reservation is that some EN-speakers, less francophile than most of us, possibly still think of 'foie gras' as coming from geese (as, for example, I still did back "in the olden days" before I ever came to France), so the connection with ducks might not be immediately apparent; and it may also not be obvious that the specially-chosen fowl are actually actively fattened to make the foie gras — it doens't "just happen"!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2018-10-24 12:23:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In answer to Asker's question under another suggestion:

"Maybe just "foie gras duck from Perigord" would work then ? "

I don't think so really; the whole point of this IGP is that it's a special kind of duck specific to Périgord — it's a "Périgord duck"; otherwise, it could just be any old quacker that simply happens in this instance to have come from Périgord.
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : Do you have any English refs to back 100% CL? /I've been in the Périgord and have eaten foie gras. This English wording would look extremely odd on a label or in a text.
7 mins
I doubt an 'official' EN term exists — anyway, my own personal knowledge and experience is enough for me; let others without that direct, practical connection turn to their books. I've been there, stuffed that duck, got the foie-gras.
neutral Sheila Wilson : But doesn't that say the duck is fattening the fois gras? It sounds an odd word order to me
11 mins
I think it's clear enough, and the only way to make it succinct; it's like a 'sucking pig' or a 'roasting fowl'. But I've suggested above some other ways it might be expressed? The important thing is first to get the idea right.
neutral ph-b (X) : Doesn't 'foie-gras fattening' sound a bit pleonastic? Doesn't 'fattening' imply it's about their liver anyway?
51 mins
Merci, Ph-B ! Simply omitting 'fattening' might be the simplest solution, though not all EN-readers will necessarily understand the connection: why you need special ducks to make foie-gras.
neutral Charles Davis : Agree with ph-b: just Périgord foie-gras duck. The expression "foie-gras duck" would be understood by anyone to mean a duck specially designed for/adapted to the production of foie-gras. They don't need to know why.
1 hr
Thanks, Charles! As I have already acknowledged above, this would be an acceptable alternative, though for certain purposes I still prefer my original version.
disagree Daryo : it's about the label that goes on the final product(s), not with the live duck // something wasn't quite right, until I checked that there is in fact an implied / omitted part: "produits de ...." // see refs.
2 hrs
No, I'm sorry, Daryon, there is absolutely no doubt about this: it is talking about the DUCK — and thence only incidentally the products; if you lived around this way you'd see it all the time, and it's immediately obvious how it is being used.
Something went wrong...
-1
1 day 1 hr

duck foie gras from Périgord

Je dirais que le commentaire de Daryo est correct, sauf qu'il serait plus habituel de mettre l'adjectif avant le nom.
Reference:

http://www.foiegrasgourmet.com/en/foie-gras-blog/difference-between-duck-liver-and-goose-liver

Peer comment(s):
agree GILLES MEUNIER
10 mins
disagree Tony M : As has been discussed at length already, this is NOT just about the foie gras — it is in essence about the ducks used to produce the foie gras, or at least the ducks as a source of derviative products.
27 mins
disagree Daryo : that would be: foie gras made from duck // here the noun is "duck", while "foie gras" is the adjective => these products originate from ducks "of the foie gras producing variety" / from ducks "reared for the purpose of making foie gras"
2 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

Foie gras controversy

The production of foie gras (the liver of a duck or a goose that has been specially fattened) involves the controversial force-feeding of birds with more food than they would eat in the wild, and more than they would voluntarily eat domestically. The feed, usually corn boiled with fat (to facilitate ingestion), deposits large amounts of fat in the liver, thereby producing the fatty consistency sought by some gastronomes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras_controversy
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Tony M : I'm sure no-one was under any lingering doubt about that process, which if done by hand is not nearly as cruel as people make it out to be; I know, i've done it.
4 mins
neutral Daryo : in which way would this change the translation? If you are die-hard atheist, simply don't touch theology as subject ...
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
5 hrs
Reference:

dead or alive?

Le logo de la marque collective de certification Origine Certifiée Périgord est apposé sur tous les emballages de produits issus de canards gras élevés, gavés, abattus, découpés, cuisinés et conditionnés en Périgord. L’ensemble de la production, allant de l’élevage des canards de race mulard ou barbarie au conditionnement des produits, doit être issu du Périgord.

https://www.terredesaveurs.com/fr/actualite/canard-foie-gras...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2018-10-24 13:30:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the idea that they would be selling live ducks didn't sound right, so I checked ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2018-10-24 14:38:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

more precisely: the idea that they would using "une Indication Géographique Protégée (IGP)" when selling live ducks didn't sound right

Nothing strange in just selling ducks for fattening / or fattened ducks in itself, it's the combination with "IGP" part that didn't sound right.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Yolanda Broad
6 hrs
Thanks!
Something went wrong...
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