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Jan 18, 2018 07:50
6 yrs ago
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French term

Elle ne va jamais forcément toujours là où on l’attend.

Non-PRO French to English Art/Literary Music
Good morning all,

I am struggling to unpick the first sentence below:

Elle ne va jamais forcement toujours là où on l’attend. C’est ça aussi, je pense, ce que font les très grands artistes.

It is a comment made about a great singer but has no other context. I can't get my head round "jamais forcement toujours" all together although I'm thinking perhaps something along the lines of "she inevitably never goes where you expect/she never does what you expect".

I would be very grateful for a hand!
Thanks.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 She never ceases to amaze me; - not scared to go out of her comfort zone.
3 +5 She doesn't necessarily [always] go where you would expect.
3 +4 she's predictably unpredictable
4 She doesn't necessarily always act the way you would expect her to.
2 she sometimes takes it (her singing) to an entirely different level
Change log

Jan 22, 2018 04:03: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "Elle ne va jamais forcement toujours là où on l’attend. " to "Elle ne va jamais forcément toujours là où on l’attend. "

Discussion

David Vaughn Jan 18, 2018:
Thanks Thanks for the answers about the French. Well over 30 years here now, but some things are always hard for me to parse as "sounding right". The "good" news: the same thing is increasingly true about English!
ph-b (X) Jan 18, 2018:
no but David wondered "if native speakers also hear this the same way" and I was responding to that.
polyglot45 Jan 18, 2018:
no but asker raised a query on the subject and I was responding to that
writeaway Jan 18, 2018:
No one (here) is inferring that there is something wrong with the French. It's just the lack of context that is a problem.
ph-b (X) Jan 18, 2018:
French OK There's nothing really wrong with the (spoken) French sentence. Using jamais and toujours in the same breath sounds a bit awkward but I would say it like that too if I'm not too careful, but of course would definitely not write it.
polyglot45 Jan 18, 2018:
agree with DV and Writeaway. Just to add that there is nothing wrong with the French comment
writeaway Jan 18, 2018:
This could be about more than just the voice It would be helpful to know the period/era this refers to. Some singers "improvised" as they went along, with all sort of stage/upstaging antics. For instance, Nathalie Dessay was always good for a surprise, with her stage presences and/or singing an octave above etc. No one could predict the outcome of a Callas performance, etc. This couldn't apply to Mirella Freni-she was as dependable -and predictable- as clockwork.
David Vaughn Jan 18, 2018:
I agree with Writeaway that the style of music could make a difference. If it were a jazz singer improvising, then the word "go" might actually be important, talking about the direction of the melody. But in today's opera, singers - with minor exceptions - don't make melodic choices. Here I think that word choice is more about French usage than meaning.
writeaway Jan 18, 2018:
Or 'often as not, she does the unexpected' agree with David
David Vaughn Jan 18, 2018:
speaker If the person speaking is not named and their identity is unimportant, I think you can respect their intention without worrying too much about their "style".
She always does the unexpected.
Victoria Miller (asker) Jan 18, 2018:
Let me clarify slightly The singer is an opera singer. That is the only context I have as this comment is otherwise entirely standalone.
Yes, it is an oral quote! Various people are talking about this singer and this is one such comment. I absolutely agree with your comment re. cleaning up the phrasing. Given that it is just one quick comment, I think it is best to be as clear as possible.
David Vaughn Jan 18, 2018:
Oral? Awkward? The meaning seems clear, "she doesn't always do what you'd expect"

Is this an oral quote? I'd love to hear what native speakers have to say, but the French sounds very oral and awkward to me. If native speakers also hear this the same way, you need to ask yourself the translation question of whether you clean up the phrasing, or if you retain the character of the original. Translators always seem to want to write "correctly", but originals aren't always correct.
writeaway Jan 18, 2018:
what type of singer? opera, jazz? you only have this sentence and nothing else at all? it must be referring to something.
polyglot45 Jan 18, 2018:
she is unpredictable in a positive way !

Proposed translations

+1
40 mins
French term (edited): Elle ne va jamais forcement toujours là où on l’attend.
Selected

She never ceases to amaze me; - not scared to go out of her comfort zone.

A number of solution exist for this phrase, depending on how literal an interpretation is appropriate. In this case, I think it means that the singer comes up with surprisng songs, choices, styles, etc., that she is not afraid to explore new areas.

Otherwise:

1) She doesn't always turn up where you might expect (her to).

2) It might be useful to consider solutions starting with "You never see her...".

3) She usually/often/always turns up where (she is) least expected.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2018-01-18 08:32:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It all depends on whether the intention is literal or figurative.
Peer comment(s):
agree Chakib Roula : I like this figurative parsing.
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "We went with "she never ceases to amaze" in the end. Thanks for helping me get my head round it!"
+5
30 mins
French term (edited): Elle ne va jamais forcement toujours là où on l’attend.

She doesn't necessarily [always] go where you would expect.

That's how I read it.

However, note that "go" may not indicate physical movement but may indicate an artistic or a behavioral direction.
Note from asker:
Thank you so much for your help!
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
26 mins
agree ph-b (X) : My understanding too.
2 hrs
agree Chakib Roula : My understanding.
6 hrs
agree philgoddard
8 hrs
agree AllegroTrans : do what you would expect
3 days 12 hrs
Something went wrong...
5 hrs
French term (edited): Elle ne va jamais forcement toujours là où on l’attend.

she sometimes takes it (her singing) to an entirely different level

Perhaps.
Note from asker:
Thank you!
Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : Quite possibly, but that's not what the ST says
3 days 7 hrs
Something went wrong...
5 hrs
French term (edited): Elle ne va jamais forcement toujours là où on l’attend.

She doesn't necessarily always act the way you would expect her to.

She can sometimes be very surprizing and do things in a way you would never have expected.
Note from asker:
Thank you!
Something went wrong...
+4
5 hrs
French term (edited): Elle ne va jamais forcement toujours là où on l’attend.

she's predictably unpredictable

The discussion reflects a translator's frequent quandry, and this expression is perhaps too 'rounded' but I think it conveys the sense while avoiding saying whether it is a question of 'going' 'performing', etc
Note from asker:
Really liked this solution! Thanks for your help!
Peer comment(s):
agree polyglot45 : love it !
9 mins
agree Chakib Roula : Very creative parsing.
1 hr
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne
1 hr
agree ph-b (X) : Nice.
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
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