Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
se ve avocada
English translation:
is destined to
Added to glossary by
Linda Grabner
Jan 4, 2018 02:49
6 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term
United States
Need it perfect? Need it fast? Call me!
Native in: English (Variant: US) 
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish
se ve avocada
Spanish to English
Social Sciences
Architecture
John Soane and James Stirling
I am translating an article on architectural history whose basic premise seems to be that the eventual end stage of any building or construction as a ruin can be fruitfully used as a design element at the beginning of the building process.
The word "avocada" just does not seem to be used in any way defined by dictionaries, translation sites, etc. Here is the full sentence, and part of the surrounding paragraph for context:
Este artículo ha intentado alejarse del concepto de ruina ligado a la visión romántica, ampliamente estudiado ya, para intentar reconducir el discurso a una nueva realidad, en la que asumamos que el devenir histórico provoca una evolución en las obras que las lleva hacia dicho estado límite. Los futuros imaginados por Soane y Stirling evidencian que cualquier creación arquitectónica procede y ***se ve avocada*** hacia la ruina, un pensamiento cercano a la hipótesis de Robert Smithson en la que utilizaba el concepto de _ruins in reverse_ (15) para toda construcción.
I have currently translated my problem phrase as "The futures imagined by Soane and Stirling show that any architectural creation moves forward and **is destined** to ruin." I tried "committed" in there, but didn't like the possible implication of a deliberate decision, so to speak, with respect to the condition of ruin. This seems to me to be pretty far from any of the meanings I've been able to find for the word, so I basically just want confirmation that I'm on the right track -- or correction and suggestions, if I'm not.
If it matters, I'm working from what I assume to be peninsular Spanish -- although the context is professional enough that there aren't too many regional markers -- into American English.
The word "avocada" just does not seem to be used in any way defined by dictionaries, translation sites, etc. Here is the full sentence, and part of the surrounding paragraph for context:
Este artículo ha intentado alejarse del concepto de ruina ligado a la visión romántica, ampliamente estudiado ya, para intentar reconducir el discurso a una nueva realidad, en la que asumamos que el devenir histórico provoca una evolución en las obras que las lleva hacia dicho estado límite. Los futuros imaginados por Soane y Stirling evidencian que cualquier creación arquitectónica procede y ***se ve avocada*** hacia la ruina, un pensamiento cercano a la hipótesis de Robert Smithson en la que utilizaba el concepto de _ruins in reverse_ (15) para toda construcción.
I have currently translated my problem phrase as "The futures imagined by Soane and Stirling show that any architectural creation moves forward and **is destined** to ruin." I tried "committed" in there, but didn't like the possible implication of a deliberate decision, so to speak, with respect to the condition of ruin. This seems to me to be pretty far from any of the meanings I've been able to find for the word, so I basically just want confirmation that I'm on the right track -- or correction and suggestions, if I'm not.
If it matters, I'm working from what I assume to be peninsular Spanish -- although the context is professional enough that there aren't too many regional markers -- into American English.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | is destined to |
neilmac
|
References
| Refs. Robert Smithson |
Taña Dalglish
|
Proposed translations
8 hrs
Selected
is destined to
Or a similar expression with "doomed" , along the lines of "doomed to failure"... It will probably be necessary to paraphrase a bit to maintain the author's idea.
Perhaps something like"The futures imagined by Soane and Stirling showed that the fate of any architectural creation is eventual ruin"... although I'm not terribly pleased with that either. I hope that's not as good as it gets.
NB: I don't understand why no one else has suggested an answer yet, despite posting some great references and discussion comments.
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Note added at 8 hrs (2018-01-04 11:48:31 GMT)
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"... every architectural creation begins and ends as rubble..."
Perhaps something like"The futures imagined by Soane and Stirling showed that the fate of any architectural creation is eventual ruin"... although I'm not terribly pleased with that either. I hope that's not as good as it gets.
NB: I don't understand why no one else has suggested an answer yet, despite posting some great references and discussion comments.
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Note added at 8 hrs (2018-01-04 11:48:31 GMT)
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"... every architectural creation begins and ends as rubble..."
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, Neil, I ended up going with "begins and ends with ruins"."
Reference comments
1 hr
Taña Dalglish
Jamaica
Jamaica
Native in English
Works in field
Jamaica
Translating the Ideas Behind the Words
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
104
Reference:
Refs. Robert Smithson
http://theexposureproject.blogspot.com/2007/10/ruins-in-reve...
'Ruins In Reverse'
In September of 1967 Robert Smithson took a bus trip from New York city to Passaic, New Jersey. He disembarked, equipped solely with a Kodak Instamatic camera and a science fiction novel, with the intention of documenting the "monuments" of the Passaic landscape. The result of this excursion was the publication an essay in Art Forum Magazine entitled, A Tour of the Monuments of Passaic, NJ.
The essay chronicles Smithson's journey through the tumultuously developed suburb as he photographs and describes the utilitarian fixtures situated in the landscape. He goes on to epically characterize outmoded bridges, sewage pipes, car garages, children's sandboxes and used car dealerships as "monuments", embellishing their character with humorous exaggeration. By placing epic importance on this form of suburban banality, Smithson further accentuates just how unimaginative places of this nature truly are.
While discussing the aesthetic and practical functions of these "monuments", ***Smithson refers to them as 'Ruins in Reverse'. Unlike typical structures that fall into ruin long after they're built, Smithson purports that suburban structures rise into ruin before they are even erected.*** The notion of landscape determinism is one that I had not really considered before reading this essay, but have been thinking about thoroughly since. More interesting still, are how these ideas have been explored photographically.
Hip wrecks - "Ruin Lust" - The Economist
https://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2014/03/ruin-lust
Mar 6, 2014 - ... of the aestheticisation of ruin: from the fantasies of 18th-century Romantic nostalgia, to projections of ruins of the future, as defined by Gustave Doré's engraving "The New Zealander", and ***Robert Smithson's notion of “ruins in reverse”—the idea of a modern world which rises into ruin even as it is created.***
HTH!
'Ruins In Reverse'
In September of 1967 Robert Smithson took a bus trip from New York city to Passaic, New Jersey. He disembarked, equipped solely with a Kodak Instamatic camera and a science fiction novel, with the intention of documenting the "monuments" of the Passaic landscape. The result of this excursion was the publication an essay in Art Forum Magazine entitled, A Tour of the Monuments of Passaic, NJ.
The essay chronicles Smithson's journey through the tumultuously developed suburb as he photographs and describes the utilitarian fixtures situated in the landscape. He goes on to epically characterize outmoded bridges, sewage pipes, car garages, children's sandboxes and used car dealerships as "monuments", embellishing their character with humorous exaggeration. By placing epic importance on this form of suburban banality, Smithson further accentuates just how unimaginative places of this nature truly are.
While discussing the aesthetic and practical functions of these "monuments", ***Smithson refers to them as 'Ruins in Reverse'. Unlike typical structures that fall into ruin long after they're built, Smithson purports that suburban structures rise into ruin before they are even erected.*** The notion of landscape determinism is one that I had not really considered before reading this essay, but have been thinking about thoroughly since. More interesting still, are how these ideas have been explored photographically.
Hip wrecks - "Ruin Lust" - The Economist
https://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2014/03/ruin-lust
Mar 6, 2014 - ... of the aestheticisation of ruin: from the fantasies of 18th-century Romantic nostalgia, to projections of ruins of the future, as defined by Gustave Doré's engraving "The New Zealander", and ***Robert Smithson's notion of “ruins in reverse”—the idea of a modern world which rises into ruin even as it is created.***
HTH!
Note from asker:
| Thanks, Taña! |
Discussion
"La coalición considera que el edificio está "abocado a la ruina" si no se subsanan los múltiples desperfectos que detectaron durante una visita a finales de febrero junto a miembros de la plataforma 'Salvemos la Casa de Campo'."
http://cadenaser.com/emisora/2014/03/05/radio_madrid/1393984...
"Abocada a la ruina por la desamortización de Mendizábal, el templo actual fue reconstruido en 1961, no siendo más que una modestísima sombra de lo que durante los siglos XVI y XVII constituyó un célebre santuario."
http://elmundoviajes.elmundo.es/elmundoviajes/noticia2.html?...
And so on. It's really a bit of a cliché, in fact.
It's not talking about a creation moving forward or going anywhere, in fact.
"Proceder" defines a source/origin.
In this case, it's suggesting that all architectural creations come from/are born out of, originate from "ruins" (and will eventually and inevitably return to that state).
Matter = Ruins-> buildings -> ruins...... All very profound stuff and this is re-stated later with "ruins in reverse_ (15) para toda construcción. "
(A complete load of pseudo-intellectual hogwash IMO; not that anyone asked, but " para intentar reconducir el discurso a una nueva realidad, en la que asumamos que el devenir histórico provoca una evolución en las obras que las lleva hacia dicho estado límite."
Really?)
Thanks!
Please see:
3. Como pronominal (abocarse), se usa mucho, especialmente en América, con el sentido de ‘dedicarse de lleno a una actividad’: «Violeta se abocó a la búsqueda de una casa» (Serrano Vida [Chile 1995]). También significa ‘encaminarse o dirigirse de modo inexorable a una situación, generalmente negativa’: «Cualquier campaña de gran envergadura [...] que no quisiese abocarse a la catástrofe tenía que saber medir muy bien sus tiempos» (SchzFerlosio Años [Esp. 1993]). Es muy frecuente su uso en participio, con los verbos estar, quedar o verse, con el sentido de ‘destinado u obligado a algo’: «Estábamos abocados al fracaso» (Portal Pago [Esp. 1983]);...
4. No debe confundirse con avocar (→ avocar).
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