Jul 19, 2016 17:13
7 yrs ago
9 viewers *
French term
Dépendre de l'actif social
French to English
Bus/Financial
Business/Commerce (general)
Articles of Association
Hello.
I am proofreading a translation for someone.
Context: notes on an Extraordinary General Meeting for a limited company in Tunisia.
"ARTICLE 14: OBLIGATIONS - BONS
La société pourra contracter tous emprunts, avec ou sans garantie ou nantissement sur les biens dépendant de l'actif social. Mais les emprunts sous forme d'obligation ou de bons, gagés ou non gagés, ne pourront être décidés que par l'Assemblé" Générale... "
The translator has translated as:
"ARTICLE 14: BONDS - OBLIGATIONS
The company may borrow any monies with or without guarantee or pledge on goods dependent on its asset. But borrowing through bonds or warrants, pledged or not pledged, may only be decided by the Ordinary General Meeting"
Is 'dependent on' a possibility here? Once again, I want to avoid correcting/ modifying if not necessary.
Thanks in advance.
I am proofreading a translation for someone.
Context: notes on an Extraordinary General Meeting for a limited company in Tunisia.
"ARTICLE 14: OBLIGATIONS - BONS
La société pourra contracter tous emprunts, avec ou sans garantie ou nantissement sur les biens dépendant de l'actif social. Mais les emprunts sous forme d'obligation ou de bons, gagés ou non gagés, ne pourront être décidés que par l'Assemblé" Générale... "
The translator has translated as:
"ARTICLE 14: BONDS - OBLIGATIONS
The company may borrow any monies with or without guarantee or pledge on goods dependent on its asset. But borrowing through bonds or warrants, pledged or not pledged, may only be decided by the Ordinary General Meeting"
Is 'dependent on' a possibility here? Once again, I want to avoid correcting/ modifying if not necessary.
Thanks in advance.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +2 | company assets | Rob Grayson |
4 -1 | goods comprising the company's assets | AllegroTrans |
3 | Be part of the corporate assets | Adrian MM. (X) |
Change log
Jul 19, 2016 22:17: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "Dépendre de l\\\'actif social" to "Dépendre de l\'actif social "
Proposed translations
+2
8 mins
French term (edited):
Dépendre de l\'actif social
Selected
company assets
biens = assets/property
actif social = corporate assets/company's assets
So, "biens dépendant de l'actif social" is literally "assets/property depending on the company's assets".
Since this is clearly somewhat tautologous in English, I would suggest simplifying/rewording along the following lines:
"…whether or not secured or pledged on company assets".
actif social = corporate assets/company's assets
So, "biens dépendant de l'actif social" is literally "assets/property depending on the company's assets".
Since this is clearly somewhat tautologous in English, I would suggest simplifying/rewording along the following lines:
"…whether or not secured or pledged on company assets".
Peer comment(s):
agree |
writeaway
2 hrs
|
disagree |
Francois Boye
: not quite! The assets beins talked about are the ones incorporated in the company's equity (contributions in kind in English; apports en nature in French)//Please look up both concepts!
8 hrs
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Any evidence for this assertion? // Nothing to discuss here. I understand accounting perfectly well. You're reaching for something that isn't there.
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agree |
mchd
18 hrs
|
agree |
Germaine
: with "whether or not secured or pledged on company assets" since "depending on the company's assets" goes without saying.
1 day 22 hrs
|
Thanks
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks"
-1
12 mins
French term (edited):
biens dépendant de l'actif social
goods comprising the company's assets
Not "depending on", which would be a faux ami here.
It might be confusing simply to say "assets" since the ST is clearly referring to "things" which can be pledged against borrowings. Hence "goods", i.e. tangible things.
It might be confusing simply to say "assets" since the ST is clearly referring to "things" which can be pledged against borrowings. Hence "goods", i.e. tangible things.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Francois Boye
: there are tangible things or goods that are part of the social capital. THose goods are called contributions in kind//Don't you know that debt is necessary to finance a company's assets?
17 hrs
|
No, goods which form part of a company's assets are not contributions in kind unless specifically stated as such: think, what if the goods were purchased by the company? (e.g. plant etc.)
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2 hrs
French term (edited):
Dépendre de l'actif social
Be part of the corporate assets
La société pourra contracter tous emprunts, avec ou sans garantie ou nantissement sur les biens dépendant de l'actif social >
'The company will be able to contract any borrowings, with or without any collateral security (a guarantee is usually given by the directors) or (floating or fixed) *charge* given over parts of the corporate assets'
might be a way round the condundrum of the assets that are part of the corp. assets
'The company will be able to contract any borrowings, with or without any collateral security (a guarantee is usually given by the directors) or (floating or fixed) *charge* given over parts of the corporate assets'
might be a way round the condundrum of the assets that are part of the corp. assets
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
writeaway
: Sorry Adrian, but I don't think your Kudoz ref is one that can be relied on./how often can financial be translated literally?
11 hrs
|
Even so, the 'be part of it' sense of depend in most Romance lingos, esp. with ref. to company assets, land and a workforce ('controlled by'), seems to work every time.//Be part of, 'run with the land' or ancillary to surely is non-literal.
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neutral |
Francois Boye
: the goods that are part of the social capital are called contributions in kind or apports en nature in French. //Disagree! Capital Social = the equity minus reverses
15 hrs
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the question is about the verb of 'Dépendre de ..', plus these could be co-to-co trade investments.//Careful: reverses in some lingos are promissory notes, plus - as our Canadian friend Germaine shrewdly points out - it's *actif* and not capital social.
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Discussion
Il reste que "biens" se rattache à "garantie ou nantissement" (syntagme = garantie/nantissement sur les biens) et que la phrase n'a pas de sens autrement, puisqu'il n'y a certes pas de "dépendance" entre biens et actif social: les biens ne "dépendent pas" de l'actif; ils n'y sont ni subordonnés (ex.: les enfants dépendent des parents), ils n'en sont pas solidaires (ex.: cet organisme dépend du ministère) et il n'y a évidemment aucune causalité (ex.: L'effet dépend de la cause).
Je ne sais pas quel serait le meilleur rendu en anglais, mais je suis catégorique quant au sens de cette phrase en français et d'autant que j'ai travaillé sur suffisamment de statuts pour m'en convaincre.
Deuxièment
ne s'applique pas ici. Lisez bien la phrase:
La société pourra contracter tous emprunts,
avec ou sans
garantie ou nantissement sur les biens[,]
[tout] dépendant de l'actif social.
Le syntagme est "garantie sur les biens" "nantissement sur les biens" et non "biens dépendant de l'actif".
Une simple virgule devant "dépendant" aurait clarifié la phrase (ou l'ajout de "tout" devant "dépendant"), mais bon... Il reste que le sens est clair: la société ne peut consentir une garantie/un nantissement que dans la mesure où son actif le permet.
http://www.iotafinance.com/Definition-actif-social.html
Le capital social d'une société représente, au « passif de son bilan », les ressources que les associés ou actionnaires ont laissées de façon permanente à la société... apports effectués par les associés ou les actionnaires lors de la constitution de la société, ou le cas échéant, lors d'opérations d'augmentation de capital. L'actif social se rapporte, quant à lui, à l'emploi par la société de l'ensemble des ressources dont elle dispose, sous forme des biens et de valeurs...
https://www.infogreffe.fr/societes/informations-et-dossiers-...
Dans l'extrait soumis en question, ce qu'on veut dire, c'est que 1. la Société pourra contracter tous emprunts; et 2. garantir ces emprunts par son actif s'il est suffisant; 3. ne pas garantir ces emprunts.
Un exemple pratico-pratique parmi bien d'autres:
Bank indebtedness’s are secured by a moveable hypothec on all the assets of the Company.
The assets in a corporation are financed by equity and/or debt. In the text you submitted, the question raised is whether the goods that are part of equity (capital social in French business law) can be used as collaterals. My question to my colleagues is the following: is there any good included in the equity that is not a contribution in kind? If they can provide an answer rooted in accounting, they are right and I am wrong. If not, they are wrong and I am right.