Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
observacion de fondo
English translation:
substantive objection / defect
Added to glossary by
Charles Davis
Jun 21, 2014 09:42
9 yrs ago
15 viewers *
Spanish term
observacion de fondo
Spanish to English
Law/Patents
Law: Patents, Trademarks, Copyright
From a Chilean law on intellectual property
Durante la tramitacion de una ***observacion de fondo***, procedimiento de oposicion, de nulidad, o de otro recurso pendiente, la division de la solicitud o del registro, solo sera procedente cuando, como resultado de la division, la observacion de fondo, el juicio de oposicion, el juicio de nulidad o el recurso de que se trate, queden circunscritos a una de las solicitudes o uno de los registros divididos.
TIA
Durante la tramitacion de una ***observacion de fondo***, procedimiento de oposicion, de nulidad, o de otro recurso pendiente, la division de la solicitud o del registro, solo sera procedente cuando, como resultado de la division, la observacion de fondo, el juicio de oposicion, el juicio de nulidad o el recurso de que se trate, queden circunscritos a una de las solicitudes o uno de los registros divididos.
TIA
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +1 | substantive objection | Charles Davis |
4 | substantive defect (found) | Billh |
3 | official objection | Chris Maddux |
3 | submission on the merits of the case | Emiliano Pantoja |
Change log
Jun 23, 2014 11:56: Charles Davis Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+1
4 hrs
Selected
substantive objection
As has already been said, this did come up before. On that occasion, I suggested "substantive objection", and I still think it's a valid translation. Here is the evidence I provided last time (that is, on this term; the question also included "observación de oficio", for which I suggested "official objection").
"Observación" means, I think, a comment on a defect: an objection. I have met it in this sense before, particularly in Latin American official documents. "Observar", by the same token, is to raise objections. This is clear from the following later section in the Chilean law:
"Artículo 18.- Observaciones a la solicitud de anotación: En el caso que el Director respectivo observare la solicitud por estimar que existen impedimentos de forma o fondo para conceder la inscripción, el solicitante tiene el plazo de 30 días para subsanarlas. Una vez que se cumpla con la observación, o una vez terminada la tramitación de la solicitud anterior, la solicitud podrá ser aceptada o rechazada."
http://www.derechomarcario.cl/nueva ley/Borrador Minecon-INA...
http://web.ua.es/es/contratos-id/documentos/ip-tango/compara...
So "cumplir con la observación" means to take the necessary action to meet the objection.
One of the basic dictionary definitions of "observar" is "advertir, reparar". I'm really suggesting that "observación" here means "reparo".
Here's another example of the use of the word in Chile, in the context of trademark registration. I think the context makes the meaning clear:
"4) Oposiciones y observaciones de fondo: realizada la publicación, comienza un plazo de 30 días hábiles para que aquellas personas que se sientan afectadas por la solicitud deduzcan oposición al registro. Vencido este plazo, el INAPI comienza el examen de fondo de la marca, donde analiza si esta incurre en alguna causal de irregistrabilidad, reguladas en los artículos 19 y 20 de la Ley 19.039.
En caso de haber oposición o alguna observación de fondo de INAPI, el solicitante tiene 30 días hábiles para contestar (que, como indicamos, debe ser a través de abogado). Vencido este plazo, haya contestado o no, INAPI resolverá si acepta o rechaza el registro."
http://www.legalchile.cl/que-tengo-que-hacer-para-inscribir-...
"De fondo", by contrast with "de forma", is normally rendered in English as substance vs. form, as in defects of substance and of form. See here, for example:
http://thelawdictionary.org/defect-of-substance/
So I think "substantive objection" is right for "observación de fondo".
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Note added at 6 hrs (2014-06-21 16:14:47 GMT)
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Note that "observación de fondo" appears to be something emanating from the patent office itself, not from a party involved in a patent application. So I don't think it can be a submission. In clause 13 of this law it says "Cuando, además de la oposición, se hubieren dictado observaciones de fondo a la solicitud de registro..."
http://www.alessandri.cl/abogados/wp-content/uploads/sites/4...
"Dictar" implies a ruling from the patent office itself.
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Note added at 2 days2 hrs (2014-06-23 11:57:44 GMT) Post-grading
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Thanks, Jane. I think Bill's suggestion was very good, as you'd expect, and I am shamelessly plagiarising it for the glossary entry. (I do this with some trepidation since he knows much more than I do about intellectual property rights :) )
"Observación" means, I think, a comment on a defect: an objection. I have met it in this sense before, particularly in Latin American official documents. "Observar", by the same token, is to raise objections. This is clear from the following later section in the Chilean law:
"Artículo 18.- Observaciones a la solicitud de anotación: En el caso que el Director respectivo observare la solicitud por estimar que existen impedimentos de forma o fondo para conceder la inscripción, el solicitante tiene el plazo de 30 días para subsanarlas. Una vez que se cumpla con la observación, o una vez terminada la tramitación de la solicitud anterior, la solicitud podrá ser aceptada o rechazada."
http://www.derechomarcario.cl/nueva ley/Borrador Minecon-INA...
http://web.ua.es/es/contratos-id/documentos/ip-tango/compara...
So "cumplir con la observación" means to take the necessary action to meet the objection.
One of the basic dictionary definitions of "observar" is "advertir, reparar". I'm really suggesting that "observación" here means "reparo".
Here's another example of the use of the word in Chile, in the context of trademark registration. I think the context makes the meaning clear:
"4) Oposiciones y observaciones de fondo: realizada la publicación, comienza un plazo de 30 días hábiles para que aquellas personas que se sientan afectadas por la solicitud deduzcan oposición al registro. Vencido este plazo, el INAPI comienza el examen de fondo de la marca, donde analiza si esta incurre en alguna causal de irregistrabilidad, reguladas en los artículos 19 y 20 de la Ley 19.039.
En caso de haber oposición o alguna observación de fondo de INAPI, el solicitante tiene 30 días hábiles para contestar (que, como indicamos, debe ser a través de abogado). Vencido este plazo, haya contestado o no, INAPI resolverá si acepta o rechaza el registro."
http://www.legalchile.cl/que-tengo-que-hacer-para-inscribir-...
"De fondo", by contrast with "de forma", is normally rendered in English as substance vs. form, as in defects of substance and of form. See here, for example:
http://thelawdictionary.org/defect-of-substance/
So I think "substantive objection" is right for "observación de fondo".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2014-06-21 16:14:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Note that "observación de fondo" appears to be something emanating from the patent office itself, not from a party involved in a patent application. So I don't think it can be a submission. In clause 13 of this law it says "Cuando, además de la oposición, se hubieren dictado observaciones de fondo a la solicitud de registro..."
http://www.alessandri.cl/abogados/wp-content/uploads/sites/4...
"Dictar" implies a ruling from the patent office itself.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days2 hrs (2014-06-23 11:57:44 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Jane. I think Bill's suggestion was very good, as you'd expect, and I am shamelessly plagiarising it for the glossary entry. (I do this with some trepidation since he knows much more than I do about intellectual property rights :) )
Note from asker:
Thanks Charles. I think both you and Bill are on the right lines here. Your explanation is really helpful. Thanks. J |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Robert Carter
: Just looking this up now because I came across the phrase "que el precio no haya sido observado fundadamente por XXX" and couldn't get my head around it. Good explanation, Charles, although how would you translation "oposiciones" as per your ref.?// Thx!
1000 days
|
Thanks, Robert. Needless to say I had completely forgotten this. I haven't checked Chilean procedure, but I think it's what the EPO calls oppositions. Not sure about US terminology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_proceeding
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thajnks Charles - really helpful. J"
38 mins
official objection
Note from asker:
Woops! I did search this term but was unable to find it. This suits much better than an in-depth investigation. Thank you. |
5 hrs
submission on the merits of the case
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Billh
: Submission by whom?? I don't see much relevance in your explanation.
4 hrs
|
8 hrs
substantive defect (found)
I think I would use defect here. When the registrar 'observare' something, he is 'finding a defect' in the application. And as he does so 'sua sponte' he could be said to be objecting but I don't think this is the right word in this case.
Looking at the laws cited it seems to me to fit rather better.
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Note added at 9 hrs (2014-06-21 18:50:38 GMT)
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Having said that, I would have no real objection to Charles' 'substantive objective'.
Looking at the laws cited it seems to me to fit rather better.
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Note added at 9 hrs (2014-06-21 18:50:38 GMT)
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Having said that, I would have no real objection to Charles' 'substantive objective'.
Discussion
But "official objection" was my suggestion for "observación de oficio", and for "observación de fondo" i suggested "substantive objection". So if you agree, the term you want is "substantive objection".
Then again, someone may come along and show that it's wrong and that the translation should be something else! If so, all the better.