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Glossary entry

Polish term or phrase:

hierarcha (kościelny)

English translation:

hierarch (pl. the hierarchy) / high official / high-ranking clergyman / high-ranking member of the clergy / senior clergyman

Added to glossary by mike23
Jun 2, 2014 06:55
9 yrs ago
6 viewers *
Polish term

hierarcha (kościelny)

Polish to English Social Sciences Philosophy tekst z teologii
Należy do nich m.in. prowadzenie przez ks. Lemańskiego swojego bloga oraz wypowiadanie się w nim nie tylko bez oglądania się na zgodę kościelnych hierarchów, ale również w taki sposób, że stawia to pod wielkim znakiem zapytania ich autorytet i pozycję społeczną.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 hierarch
3 +4 high official of the (Catholic) Church
4 +1 church officialdom
3 Church elder
3 -1 leader
3 -1 (church) higher-up
3 -1 clergymen
Change log

Jun 8, 2014 03:55: mike23 changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/1397468">Jacek Siminski's</a> old entry - "hierarcha (kościelny)"" to ""hierarch""

Discussion

George BuLah (X) Jun 3, 2014:
No to charakteryzujesz się szczególną percepcją porównywania złośliwości z ironią, z pozytywną argumentacją dla - ironii.
Co do Heńka (tum Cię czekał ;) - ulokowałaś w hierarchii jego gafy dziejowe jak 100% kobieta, co jest niezwykle urocze :).
Monika Wojewoda Jun 3, 2014:
Ja tego w ogóle nie biorę do siebie. Moja uwaga nie była złośliwością, tylko ironią. I nie wykręcaj się Heniem VIII, bo chociaż musi się w zaświatach z wielu rzeczy tłumaczyć, to na pewno nie z tego ;)
George BuLah (X) Jun 3, 2014:
Nie bierz, Moniko, tego tak do siebie proszę, chociaż nie unikniemy personifikacji w zapalczywości dostarczania tu wiedzy ;).
Otóż, tak ! Błądziłem maluczki w odmętach struktury mego Kościoła i Łukasz przekonał mnie, by nie powstrzymywać się od używania żywych, angielskich słów i nie zastępować ich takimi - z pozoru poprawnymi terytorialnie.
A to już nie moja wina, że Heniek VIII zgotował nam rozłam i tym samym skomplikował sprawy w tym wątku.
Monika Wojewoda Jun 3, 2014:
Jak to dobrze, JacaZwawa, że chociaż ty już wszystko wiesz !
mike23 Jun 3, 2014:
From what I see at the very website of The Holy See - they use 'hierarchs' (less common) and hierarchy

http://gsearch.vatican.va/search?q=hierarchy&btnG=Cerca in&s...
http://gsearch.vatican.va/search?q=hierarchs&btnG=Cerca in&s...
http://www.vatican.va/resources/resources_lettera-modifiche_...
http://www.google.pl/#q=hierarchs vatican site:va
geopiet Jun 2, 2014:
phrase the search properly and you get less than 3500 - http://goo.gl/ejemBI
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz Jun 2, 2014:
You'll still find almost 30K hits for 'Catholic hierarchs'.
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Jun 2, 2014:
The meanings and nuances of some words in the two languages do not coincide. There is nothing wrong with hierarch. However, in usage, googling "hierarch" or "hierarchs" gets you almost exclusively references to the Eastern Orthodox church. This is what I mean about the overlap of usage: an English-speaker might associate hierarch with those churches.
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz Jun 2, 2014:
If you wanted something decidedly western and decidedly English, you could go for 'prelates', but there's nothing wrong at all with 'hierarchs'.
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz Jun 2, 2014:
It's hierarchs in Polish, so why not in English? Translation doesn't require substitution of approximate synonyms with a higher frequency than whatever's the best rendition of the phrase or expression from the source language. Rare words are used rarely.
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Jun 2, 2014:
The term "church hierarch" is most uncommon in English usage and, when it is used, it is used mainly in connection with Eastern Orthodox Churches. Church hierarchy in the collective is much more prevalent.
George BuLah (X) Jun 2, 2014:
Absolutely.
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz Jun 2, 2014:
Still hierarchs.
George BuLah (X) Jun 2, 2014:
Doomsday! ;)
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. Jun 2, 2014:
The question is about a hierarch but the text is about a collective. We are not playing around with lawyerly definitions but with a live text which expresses an attitude and begs for a nuanced expression.
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz Jun 2, 2014:
@Lilian: Organizations can have multiple leaders, for example you could say 'Catholic leaders in Poland/UK/US/France/whatever'. 'A leader' is different from 'the leader', but it certainly exists.
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz Jun 2, 2014:
Nie zmieściło mi się tam niżej, ale hierarcha to jest przede wszystkim ktoś, kto sprawuje jakąś funkcję hierarchiczną. Czy jest ona wysoka, to kwestia ocenna. W porównaniu ze zwykłym proboszczem biskup pomocniczy to bardzo dużo. A w porównaniu z prefektem kongregacji watykańskiej? Poza tym jeśli się pisze „of the Catholic Church”, to sugeruje szczyty hierarchii całego Kościoła (tj. kurię watykańską), a nie hierarchów w jednym z wielu krajów.

Proposed translations

+4
22 mins
Selected

hierarch

hierarch

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Note added at 33 mins (2014-06-02 07:29:08 GMT)
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in plural: hierarchy sounds better, e.g. the Hierarchy of the Church

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Note added at 44 mins (2014-06-02 07:40:05 GMT)
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Other options: High-ranking clergyman, high-ranking member of the clergy, senior clergyman, high priest (e.g. in Judaism)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 59 mins (2014-06-02 07:55:06 GMT)
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Earlier today, Barack Obama offered the hierarchy “a compromise.” Under its terms, insurance companies offering healthcare coverage will be required to provide contraception and abortifacients...
http://newmediajournal.us/indx.php/item/4551

O’Brien was the England’s senior clergyman and an outspoken critic of [...] marriage.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/cardinal-o-brien-cops-...

A senior Church of England clergyman is being investigated over allegations he is having an affair with a married mother-of-three.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1269391/High-ranking...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2014-06-02 10:53:22 GMT)
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Other options
High-ranking clergyman, high-ranking member of the clergy, senior clergyman

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2014-06-02 11:31:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://goo.gl/AUI8Wv
http://goo.gl/pwq6mb

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2014-06-02 11:59:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

One of them is Pennsylvania, where the church hierarchy recently sponsored a day of fasting and prayer in response to what it called "an unprecedented and gross infringement" of religious liberty.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-18215371
The Catholic Church hierarchy failed to change with it and the organisation of the Church appeared dated.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/The-Catholic-Reformatio...
https://www.google.pl/#q="church hierarchy" site:uk
Peer comment(s):
neutral LilianNekipelov : Not really.
4 hrs
Lilian, I have four ideas here. Have a look here - http://goo.gl/pwq6mb or http://goo.gl/AUI8Wv
agree Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. : Great options, Michał.
4 hrs
Thank you. I hope one of these does the job well as one can see from the examples. I agree 'hierarch' sounds odd, but 'church hierarchy' is in use, in the UK at least
agree Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz : Lilian, you're dead wrong. Of course it's 'hierarch' in the singular, and you just don't know Catholic ecclesiastical vocabulary.
6 hrs
Dziękuję za rzeczowy komentarz. Pozdrawiam
agree George BuLah (X) : Łukasz mnie przekonał; mowa przecież o relacji w kościele katolickim, czego nawet nie trzeba artykułować, bo brzmienie kontekstu wyraźnie na to wskazuje; jeśli ktoś nie wie o co chodzi w tle przekazu, to niech się douczy
22 hrs
Dzięki
agree Polangmar
1 day 20 hrs
Dziękuję
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-1
36 mins

leader

If you are looking for something slightly more idiomatic than "hierarch" (although it's undoubtedly the correct term, it's not a word that's used much nowadays).
Peer comment(s):
disagree LilianNekipelov : No. The Pope is the leader.
3 hrs
neutral Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz : Leaders and hierarchs are not exactly the same. And there's nothing wrong with 'hierarch' and no need to resort to loose translations just for the sake of diversity.
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

(church) higher-up

Bishop Buhain: ‘Church higher-ups denied me due process’ - http://www.rappler.com/nation/31802-bishop-teodoro-buhain-ch...

--------

Anderson said documents confirm Wehmeyer was given a 28-hour advance by church higher-ups that he would be arrested for the child-abuse - http://www.twincities.com/crime/ci_25023133/church-still-nee...

-------------

The Los Angeles Archdiocese says it will comply with a judge's ruling and release priest abuse files with names of church higher-ups included. - http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/01/07/35547/la-archdiocese-say...

-----------

Peer comment(s):
disagree Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz : Nie o to chodzi i nie trzyma rejestru, jest zbyt potoczne.
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
2 hrs

high official of the (Catholic) Church

option
Peer comment(s):
agree Swift Translation
33 mins
Dziękuję :)
agree LilianNekipelov : Or officials. Yes.
1 hr
Thanks, Lilian :)
agree Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
2 hrs
Thank you, Frank :) :) :)
agree mike23
2 hrs
Dziękuję :)
disagree Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz : Nie ma potrzeby. Jest proste, bezpośrednie tłumaczenie „hierarch” i nie ma co udziwniać na siłę.
4 hrs
Dziękuję za opinię. Jeżeli kontekst wyraźnie mówi o hierarchach w polskim kościele, to może być np. high officials of the Polish (Catholic) Church
agree Polangmar
1 day 18 hrs
Dziękuję, Polangmar :)
Something went wrong...
+1
4 hrs

church officialdom

This is plural = kościelnych hierarchów = and COLLECTIVE, i.e. not ONE hierach, but all the hierachs.

The resulting lawsuit sent shock waves through church officialdom.

We are advised by the authors that on issues classified as ideological (excepting the UN) church officialdom takes a, strong position.

That is a major paradigm shift that is even more evident on the ground than in cloistered meetings of high church officialdom. I
Peer comment(s):
agree mike23 : It's a good idea.
8 mins
Thanks, Michał. This is sometimes used sarcastically, which may be of value here.
disagree Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz : Nie o to chodzi.
2 hrs
Thank you, Łukasz. We will have to disagree :considering the plural form, the collective nature of the term, and the slightly wry nuance, "church officialdom" fits to a tee. See the provided examples and a million more on the Web.
agree Monika Wojewoda : Idealnie pasuje do kontekstu.// You bet, Frank ;)
3 hrs
You have a highly discriminating taste. Thank you, Monika.
Something went wrong...
-1
6 hrs

clergymen

Linki...
Reference:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/clergyman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clergy

Peer comment(s):
disagree Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz : Nie! Clergymen to duchowni, a do duchownych należy np. diakon na praktykach duszpasterskich przed ukończeniem seminarium.
41 mins
Something went wrong...
1861 days

Church elder

My 2 eurocents, with 860K h to back it

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Note added at 1861 days (2019-07-07 12:34:37 GMT) Post-grading
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hits, not h
Something went wrong...
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