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wrapping his washing up in the "half sox"
irate
Apr 3, 2014 15:31
10 yrs ago
English term

lifting

Non-PRO English Other Other
Hi,

I'm an italian translator and I'mt ranslating a test from english into italian.
It's a test designed for english people and at a certain point i found this question:

18. The Nantes School of Art is
a. moving to a new site in the near future
b. lifting to a new site in the near future
c. sending to a new site in the near future

I think that answers B and C are not grammatically corrects...what do you think about this?

Thank you very much

Simone Giovannini
Responses
5 +4 Intentional
4 +3 Yes.
Change log

Apr 4, 2014 04:29: Catharine Cellier-Smart changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): Tony M, B D Finch, Catharine Cellier-Smart

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Discussion

Peter Simon Apr 4, 2014:
@ Tony I'm sorry, I didn't want to be unkind at all and did not intend to insult anyone. I only found this symptomatic of the effect people are taught second languages. I felt compelled to write a whole item about issues this question raised for me on my blog, from which I'm sure you'd understand my real meaning. If interested, you can find it at http://learnenglishinnetherlands.com/2014/04/04/effect-of-gr... Your comment there would be more than welcome. Best wishes from Peter (not Simon)
Tony M Apr 3, 2014:
@ Peter I think you're being a little unkind there, Peter — it wasn't at all an afterthought on my part; I merely felt compelled to raise the point rather late in the day simply when I saw no-one else had done so.
As for the use of the passive voice, I was simply trying to explain how somebody might be able to conceive that the verb 'send' could be used (whereas 'lfit' just could not!) — I am not so illiterate as to suggest it as being a viable alternative, simply allowing a tiny benefit of doubt.

I think in all your flabbergastedness, you might perhaps express yourself in a way that was less dismissive of your colleagues or insulting to their intelligence!
Peter Simon Apr 3, 2014:
Sorry, guys, I'm flabbergasted! Except for Tony, nobody made even a slight warning that, as far as 'grammar' is generally understood, all 3 sent's are correct, and Tony only on second thoughts. Does one have to be an E teacher as well to point out such a thing? Further, Tony, you can't be serious suggesting that "the school is sent to a new site in the near future" would make more sense than in the active voice. Or do all of you understand 'grammar' as the 'grammar of vocabulary'? I don't think so. This is a beautiful example of the futility of 'grammar' teaching - all to nothing without understanding meaning. And this to be translated? That's another question, as all tests are non-translatable as such, but if needs be, the translator only needs to put in any gobbledegook into "correct" sentences, i.e., using wrong verbs as suggested by BD. 'The butterfly swims very well.'
B D Finch Apr 3, 2014:
@Danila Perhaps the Italian version of the test is intended for English people? However, it seems a pointless exercise translating a test of this sort. It would seem a better idea just to write a test in Italian based upon similar principles, e.g. using the wrong verb.
Danila Moro Apr 3, 2014:
thanks Tony that's how they sounded to me, too (the asker posted the question first in the En-It section and I gave an answer). What's odd is how such a test be can administered to English mothertongues (but that's another issue).
Tony M Apr 3, 2014:
@ Asker By the way, it's not so much a case of 'grammatically correct' — one could say that grammatically they are indeed correct, but it's a problem of vocabulary — simply the incorrect choice of verb.
Tony M Apr 3, 2014:
@ Danila Yes, they are completely wrong, as Harshsi has said; the verb 'to lift' simply won't do at all, and if one wanted to use the verb 'to send', it would have to be in the passive voice 'is to be sent'.
Yes, I don't think a native EN speaker — or to be honest, even an intermediate-level learner — would hesitate for a moment between these answers.
Danila Moro Apr 3, 2014:
to the responders "how much" do you think they are incorrect? I mean, are they completely wrong, so that an ordinary English mothertongue would have no difficulty in picking the right answer? Are they medium wrong? I think this is the main problem in traslating them into Italian.

Responses

+4
4 mins
Selected

Intentional

B and C are designed to be incorrect because you are asked to pick the only correct answer out of the 3. You will have to find an appropriate match in your own language.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
5 mins
agree Jean-Claude Gouin
1 hr
agree Arabic & More
1 hr
agree Tina Vonhof (X)
1 day 9 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+3
4 mins

Yes.

b and c are incorrect.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 mins (2014-04-03 15:37:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A school can't be lifted or sent.
You may translate verbatim in your language.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2014-04-03 15:52:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Agree with Tony on "completely wrong."
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
4 mins
:)
agree Jean-Claude Gouin
1 hr
agree Arabic & More
1 hr
Something went wrong...
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