This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Dec 30, 2013 12:58
10 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
personnes morales à but patrimonial
French to English
Bus/Financial
Finance (general)
Bank procedure
I'm translating a lending procedure for the wealth management department of a bank and wondered how exactly to translated personnes morales à but patrimonial as patrimonial can be translated in so many different ways
Proposed translations
(English)
5 | patrimonial refers here to patrimoine that is "capital" or "ressource(s)" for sure. | hermes17 |
5 -2 | for- profit legal entity (corporation) | Monica Rightenour |
Proposed translations
-2
50 mins
for- profit legal entity (corporation)
http://www.sos.state.tx.us/corp/forms/201_boc.pdf
Form 201—General Information (Certificate of Formation – For-Profit Corporation)
http://www.pbrainmedia.com/library/articles/nonprofstructure...
Corporations in General
To create any type of corporation, nonprofit or for-profit, you must file paperwork with the state government, usually the secretary of state's office. Once you file the required document -- typically called "articles of incorporation" -- you have "incorporated" and created a separate legal entity: your corporation.
In the simplest terms, a corporation -- whether nonprofit or for-profit -- is a type of business structure. Other types of business structures include sole proprietorships, partnerships and limited liability companies (LLCs). Some states also recognize associations: groups of individuals who work together for some common goal but haven't taken steps to create a specific legal entity.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2013-12-30 16:20:11 GMT)
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http://www.coj.be/fichejurid_36.htm
La finalité sociale
L’article 661 du Code des sociétés ne définit pas strictement ce qu’il faut entendre par "finalité sociale". Il est prévu que la SFS doit préciser, dans ses statuts, que ses associés ne recherchent aucun bénéfice patrimonial ou seulement un bénéfice patrimonial limité.
Le bénéfice patrimonial comprend deux aspects : d’une part, le bénéfice patrimonial direct – à savoir la distribution de dividendes aux associés - et, d’autre part, le bénéfice patrimonial indirect – à savoir l’obtention d’une économie dans le chef des associés.
http://books.google.fr/books?id=8eh7S2hqTJsC&pg=PA294&lpg=PA...
http://books.google.fr/books?id=WQvCDG4HmhMC&pg=PA115&lpg=PA...
Asbl Et Activites Marchandes
books.google.fr/books?isbn=287496090X
Coipel, Marée, Mertens, De Patoul, Davagle, Fischer et Goblet - 2009
En bref, le bénéfice patrimonial direct consiste dans le partage des bénéfices générés par l'activité sociale. Le bénéfice patrimonial indirect est, pour sa part, tout ...
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_des_sociétés_en_France
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Note added at 5 hrs (2013-12-30 18:35:03 GMT)
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You may try to check this out and see if "Fondation Patrimoniale - Patrimonial Foundation/ Patrimonial entity" fits the context.
http://www.ey.com/LU/en/Services/Tax/Tax-alert_20130801_Draf...
The characteristics of the patrimonial foundation make it an instrument dedicated to individuals or patrimonial entities whose goal is the administration of a private fortune with the exclusion of exercising any commercial, industrial, agricultural or self-employed activity. As such, it differs from the foundations governed by the modified law dated 21 April 1928 on non-profit associations and foundations: even if a patrimonial foundation may have accessorily charitable and non-profit activities, it may not be incorporated with a purpose reserved for non-profit foundations, its object must be the management and the administration of a private wealth for the benefit of one or more beneficiaries or for the benefit of one or more (non-charitable) purposes (e.g. financing of the studies of a descendant)
http://www.step.org/patrimonial-foundation
Unlike a company, an FP has no shareholders and so is often described as an ‘orphan entity’. The object of an FP is the administration of its assets for the benefit of one or more beneficiaries or to further one or more purposes that must not qualify as ‘charitable’ within the meaning of the law of 21 April 1928 on not-for-profit associations and foundations.3 The entities governed by the 1928 law (as amended), acquire their charitable status as a result of a complex incorporation process involving ministerial approval.
http://www.opf-partners.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Flash...
http://www.creatrust.lu/fr/Actualites-183.html?mbID=290#.UsG...
Form 201—General Information (Certificate of Formation – For-Profit Corporation)
http://www.pbrainmedia.com/library/articles/nonprofstructure...
Corporations in General
To create any type of corporation, nonprofit or for-profit, you must file paperwork with the state government, usually the secretary of state's office. Once you file the required document -- typically called "articles of incorporation" -- you have "incorporated" and created a separate legal entity: your corporation.
In the simplest terms, a corporation -- whether nonprofit or for-profit -- is a type of business structure. Other types of business structures include sole proprietorships, partnerships and limited liability companies (LLCs). Some states also recognize associations: groups of individuals who work together for some common goal but haven't taken steps to create a specific legal entity.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2013-12-30 16:20:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.coj.be/fichejurid_36.htm
La finalité sociale
L’article 661 du Code des sociétés ne définit pas strictement ce qu’il faut entendre par "finalité sociale". Il est prévu que la SFS doit préciser, dans ses statuts, que ses associés ne recherchent aucun bénéfice patrimonial ou seulement un bénéfice patrimonial limité.
Le bénéfice patrimonial comprend deux aspects : d’une part, le bénéfice patrimonial direct – à savoir la distribution de dividendes aux associés - et, d’autre part, le bénéfice patrimonial indirect – à savoir l’obtention d’une économie dans le chef des associés.
http://books.google.fr/books?id=8eh7S2hqTJsC&pg=PA294&lpg=PA...
http://books.google.fr/books?id=WQvCDG4HmhMC&pg=PA115&lpg=PA...
Asbl Et Activites Marchandes
books.google.fr/books?isbn=287496090X
Coipel, Marée, Mertens, De Patoul, Davagle, Fischer et Goblet - 2009
En bref, le bénéfice patrimonial direct consiste dans le partage des bénéfices générés par l'activité sociale. Le bénéfice patrimonial indirect est, pour sa part, tout ...
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_des_sociétés_en_France
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2013-12-30 18:35:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
You may try to check this out and see if "Fondation Patrimoniale - Patrimonial Foundation/ Patrimonial entity" fits the context.
http://www.ey.com/LU/en/Services/Tax/Tax-alert_20130801_Draf...
The characteristics of the patrimonial foundation make it an instrument dedicated to individuals or patrimonial entities whose goal is the administration of a private fortune with the exclusion of exercising any commercial, industrial, agricultural or self-employed activity. As such, it differs from the foundations governed by the modified law dated 21 April 1928 on non-profit associations and foundations: even if a patrimonial foundation may have accessorily charitable and non-profit activities, it may not be incorporated with a purpose reserved for non-profit foundations, its object must be the management and the administration of a private wealth for the benefit of one or more beneficiaries or for the benefit of one or more (non-charitable) purposes (e.g. financing of the studies of a descendant)
http://www.step.org/patrimonial-foundation
Unlike a company, an FP has no shareholders and so is often described as an ‘orphan entity’. The object of an FP is the administration of its assets for the benefit of one or more beneficiaries or to further one or more purposes that must not qualify as ‘charitable’ within the meaning of the law of 21 April 1928 on not-for-profit associations and foundations.3 The entities governed by the 1928 law (as amended), acquire their charitable status as a result of a complex incorporation process involving ministerial approval.
http://www.opf-partners.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Flash...
http://www.creatrust.lu/fr/Actualites-183.html?mbID=290#.UsG...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
philgoddard
: I think the meaning is more likely to be holding assets than making a profit. And we need French references, not English.
1 hr
|
you may be right (we need more context), but the company is " à but patrimonial", which implies the company seeking the loan expects (or is expected) to make bénéfice patrimonial either direct, or indirect.
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disagree |
writeaway
: I don't see how you arrived at this translation. proving the English term exists does nothing to show it's the correct translation. I am giving you a disgree because of the OTT confidence level posted for an incorrect answer
2 hrs
|
I agree with you. I did not mean to show highest confidence level, it was by mistake. I do not have enough context.
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disagree |
Daryo
: CL5? 'corporations' are NOT the only 'legal entities' around (it's not two synonyms) + 'for profit' is the translation for 'à but lucratif'
5 hrs
|
This is why I proposed "legal entity" and not "corporation". If you read above, CL5 was not my intention, it was a mistake. As you see, I offered different suggestions.
|
1 day 4 hrs
patrimonial refers here to patrimoine that is "capital" or "ressource(s)" for sure.
This setting of words, in a banking environment can only means (for the intriguing word; that is patrimonial) "patrimoine" i.e. "asset (s)", "capital", or "resource(s)". BIEN/HERITAGE IN FRENCH. In other words one cannot oppose in parity or polarity "patrimonial" to "matrimonial" as a translator seeking the exact meaning could be led to think. The key to this question is therefore the way to read patrimonial and that is as derived from PATRIMOINE and not from a faux-amis couple matrimonial/patrimonial. Therefore the right translation is: PERSONNES MORALES RESSOURCES/
Discussion
- which county is concerned (for the original),
- where your target reader is located (for the translation suggestion)
- original context, with the term in an extract of the original French.
http://www.pluris.com/asset-holding-entities