This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
Adhérant magasin
débit
Nov 27, 2013 22:01
10 yrs ago
18 viewers *
French term

Bachelier-agrégée de l'enseignement secondaire inférieur

French to English Social Sciences Education / Pedagogy Belgian degree
Title of a Belgian degree delivered by a High School.
according to my findings the notion of agrégé in Belgium is totally different to the one in France. Any idea?
Proposed translations (English)
4 associate bachelor of lower secondary education
3 Initial Teacher Training/Education diploma (or Associate degree)
References
Bachelier-Agrégé(e) de l'enseignement secondaire inférieur
Haute Ecole
On the non-translatability of academic credentials

Discussion

Janice Giffin Nov 28, 2013:
High School and Haute Ecole are not the same thing I would go along with writeaway and Nikki. Leave the original title and provide an explanation in English. Question: would you call the first 3 years of secondary school "middle school"?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Nov 28, 2013:
@Writeaway : we're writing at the same time!
writeaway Nov 28, 2013:
Keep the French in any case and put some sort of Eng explanation- amounts to a teaching qualification for the first 3 years of secondary school
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Nov 28, 2013:
Standard caveat Just a note to say that in the translation, the original title of the qualification should remain. Explanations may be given but the job of pairing one qualification to a supposed equivalent remains the job of a equivalence commission, not that of the translator. We have to be very careful to remain descriptive and country-specific. ;-)

@Writeaway : edit to reply. Yes, quite. "High school" is US American and that is the point I was making; that as soon as we see "high school", whatever follows, we immediately think secondary system.

I understand that age might not be useful. It was a suggestion that it might be a guide and I certainly wasn't suggesting 11-14 as written in stone, just as an idea of presentation, obviously to be adapted to suit.

My main suggestion remains : never translate a diploma, for the very reasons we see here. Explanations or descriptions may be helpful but without seeking parallels as they are of course so country-specific.
writeaway Nov 28, 2013:
@Nikki High school college is not US terminology either. I wouldn't include the ages. Age 11 is normally in final year of primary. The Belgian system is not really equivalent to the Fr system either. It has to be dealt with on its own. All these comparisons or attempted equivalents are making it all even more confusing.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Nov 28, 2013:
@AmelS If you use the term "high school college" for a UK reader it will lead to the same confusion as here. (I was basing my comments on the original post). We're linguists and spot the potential for misunderstanding. The English version needs to take account of the specificity of the Belgian system, but also of the final reader, in order to avoid the ambiguity which was obvious to us here.
You simply need to find some way of indicating that this is a degree entitling its holder to teach at secondary level. Something basic and simple may do the trick but the specificity needs to be accounted for. Maybe giving an indication of the age range would help.
- [Belgian] teaching degree (for secondary level : age 11-14)

I can only make suggestions for UK final readers. If addressing a US reader, then it may need a different type of vocabulary. I suspect that in the US, the term "high school" has to be avoided at all costs!
writeaway Nov 28, 2013:
A degree qualification for someone teaching courses in the first 3 years of secondary. The misuse of the term high school has thrown us all off. Imo it comes from the Flemish Hogeschool which is post secondary but not full university. Teachers teaching the last 3 years of secondary need a full university degree.
http://www.enseignement.be/index.php?page=26826&navi=3427
AmelS (asker) Nov 28, 2013:
@write away it is a degree from a high school college.

In Belgium there are regular universities and high schools post secondary school
AmelS (asker) Nov 28, 2013:
@Nikki it is a degree that enable her to teach in secondary level
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Nov 28, 2013:
@AmelS In order to clarify the situation in the original, we need to know whether this is FROM secondary education or FOR secondary education. In other words, does this certify a level of education attained in secondary education or one which enables the individual concerned to teach in secondary level education? http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccalauréat_(Belgique)
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Nov 28, 2013:
Indeed, for US and UK final readers, a degree means at least three years at university level. Is "bachelier" being used to describe someone who has passed (in the EN sense, thus who has been successful in) the Belgian "baccalauréat"? Or is it being used to describe someone who has passed a bachelor's degree in education and who is thus certified "agrégée" to teach at secondary school level? I suspect the latter, given the "agrégée", but the phrase in your original which states "...degree delivered by a high school" is contradictory. Also, "delivered by" should be "issued by", although it would be more natural to simple say "from".
writeaway Nov 28, 2013:
High School is US for secondary school. They issue diplomas, not degrees. Which Belgian school is this from?
Sheila Wilson Nov 27, 2013:
High school degree? What's that?

Proposed translations

13 mins
Selected

associate bachelor of lower secondary education

-
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : explanation not terribly convincing. where does associate come into it?
1 min
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : The original is confusing : we need to be clear on whether this is a diploma FROM secondary education level or FOR teaching at secondary education level. This suggestion does not quite clarify the issue.
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
11 hrs

Initial Teacher Training/Education diploma (or Associate degree)

The reference says that ..."In many countries Initial Teacher Education (also known as preservice teacher training) takes place largely or exclusively in institutions of Higher Education". Higher education generally means a university, but could also include other institutes (see second ref). An 'associate degree' is less, requiring about two years of coursework and training. See also 'Associate Degree'.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2013-11-28 09:55:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

That part that confuses me is the Haute Ecole. Is it a cross between a secondary and tertiary education?
Reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teacher_education

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_Education

Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : it's not initial teacher training. it's the end result. It's not an associate degree. The Belgian system has its own quirks. (should know-I live in Brussels)
9 mins
I see. I used Initial Teacher Training because it seemed to be equivalent to I.T.T teacher training in the UK.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

11 hrs
Reference:

Bachelier-Agrégé(e) de l'enseignement secondaire inférieur

http://www.euroeducation.net/prof/belcofr.htm

Scroll down to first stages of study. This is equivalent to the first three years of university study, but is not only offered at university. It can be achieved at Hautes Ecoles, Instituts supérieurs d'architecture, and Ecoles supérieures des Arts. For the Bachelier-Agrégé(e) de l'enseignement secondaire inférieur, this is a teacher training program for middle school level offered in in the pedagogical department of the Hautes Ecoles
Reference:

http://www.euroeducation.net/prof/belcofr.htm

Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Useful reference, but the problem remains of how to render its scope and application to whichever target reader system is relevant.
58 mins
Something went wrong...
12 hrs
Reference:

Haute Ecole

Haute école (Belgique)
En Belgique, une haute école désigne un ensemble d’établissements supérieurs qui dispense un enseignement de type court ou long de type universitaire dans le cadre de la Déclaration de Bologne.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haute_école_(Belgique)
Something went wrong...
4 days
Reference:

On the non-translatability of academic credentials

Reference information:
I am posting below my standard explanation about academic credentials. I have posted the same explanation in a number of KudoZ over the years.

In the case of an academic credential, there is no "translation" - The short explanation is: translators are not in a position to determine degree or diploma equivalencies, a complex task that can only be performed by qualified officials at degree-awarding institutions. I speak from experience not only as a translator but as a retired academic: I sat for years on a university committee that developed the standards for admission, transfer and graduation from that institution. Once those standards were developed and approved by the university community and its officials, they became part of the tools with which the university registrar could work. Registrars are the *only* officials at an institution of higher learning who can evaluate degree equivalencies. And they can only do so in terms of their own institution's standards. Not even they are in a position to "re-award" a degree or credits earned elsewhere! In like manner, boards of education/state departments of education (in the US) are the only ones qualified to determine what is required to satisfy requirements for graduation. In France, it is the Ministère de l'éducation.

For a tool that registrars use, you might want to look at Eurydice, which has done a mammoth job of developing equivalencies (no doubt relieving assorted academic administrators of many headaches). Here is the URL:

http://www.eurydice.org/

However, just because an equivalency appears "ready-made" in Eurydice does not suddenly convert translators into surrogate registrars.
Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search