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PAT.DIF.EXP [on a university transcript]
je peux déplacer l'humérus a 90 degrés de l'enlevement

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

beurre pâtissier

English translation:

concentrated butter

Added to glossary by Mark Nathan
Nov 16, 2013 19:00
10 yrs ago
9 viewers *
French term

beurre pâtissier

French to English Other Cooking / Culinary
Composition: beurre pâtissier
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 concentrated butter
4 premium butter
4 patissier butter
3 high fat content butter for baking
References
Wafflings
ref.
if one looks on the www...........
Change log

Nov 16, 2013 20:54: Tony M changed "Field (specific)" from "Food & Drink" to "Cooking / Culinary"

Nov 30, 2013 09:46: Mark Nathan Created KOG entry

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Yvonne Gallagher

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Discussion

Rachel Fell Nov 19, 2013:
Can't agree more with writeaway.
writeaway Nov 19, 2013:
This is getting out of hand The most recent fuel to the fire does not say they aren't the same thing. Concentrated butter won't be the wrong answer even if it errs by being easily understood and not overly complicated.
Tony M Nov 19, 2013:
Excellent, Sbgaut! Once again, confirmation that 'beurre pâtissier' is NOT the same thing as 'beurre concentré', though it may contain it.
Sbgaut Nov 19, 2013:
http://terroirs.denfrance.free.fr/p/fiches_pratiques/beurre....
Silvina Gospodinova (asker) Nov 18, 2013:
Hi Stephen, this is from the packaging of a product so it is for the general public.
Stephen Schwanbeck Nov 18, 2013:
@ Silvana - Audience Hi Silvina. Exactly what kind of document is the term being used in and what's the target audience? Is it packaging? A recipe? A list? Is it for the general public or food specialists? For example, if it's the general public, you probably would want to go with "concentrated butter". If it's for foodies, you could just stick (no pun intended) with "beurre pâtissier". They would know what it is and would most likely expect to see it kept in French.
Silvina Gospodinova (asker) Nov 17, 2013:
Hi everyone! Thank you for all your suggestions. The text I'm translating is about ingredients of chocolate products.
Tony M Nov 17, 2013:
@ Nikki As I see it, the key problem is that it clearly is butter that is more concentrated than usual — no-one has any doubt about that, I don' think — BUT that 'concentrated butter' is also a specific product description; we read plenty of refs. about various types of butter being 'reconstituted' from 'concentrated butter'.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Nov 17, 2013:
@Silvina In my view, this is beginning to look like a type of "beurre concentré". I think that to say it is synonymous with "beurre concentré" is to run the risk that a particular detail, in transformation, be overlooked.
Could you indicate the context in which your term appears? Is it a recipe? Is it a professional context? Is it a home, domestic context? It could even be a legal, administrative context (recent cases, Nantes, Douai...).
Perhaps you could provide a spot more info then we could start considering whether the finer detail is even important and then dig further to pin it down.
Tony M Nov 16, 2013:
But Lorraine... ...that is looking at it from a transatlantic perspective, and is really saying that ALL European butter has a higher fat content than typical US (?) butter; so what we are looking at here is an 'even-more-premium' butter, which we use over here in Europe specifically in baking.
Lorraine Dubuc Nov 16, 2013:
It is written black on white: 'Both cultured and uncultured butter types may also be premium, or European-style, meaning the butterfat content is extra-high. Premium butter is a pastry baker’s best friend. '

Proposed translations

+5
1 hr
Selected

concentrated butter

It is butter with a lower water content.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : I don't like the term 'concentrated', and as W/A's ref. indicates, this may CONTAIN 'concentrated butter', but that's not what it actually IS. / Sadly, Rachel's ref. refers to ACTUAL concentrated butter, NOT this stuff!
42 mins
agree Rachel Fell : despite dearth of context: http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/snacks/sainsbury-s-butter-brioche-ro...
4 hrs
agree writeaway : http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/consleg/2005/R/0... http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...
14 hrs
agree GILLES MEUNIER : C'est bien çà en français.....
14 hrs
agree mchd : cela correspond bien à la définition de ce beurre
15 hrs
agree GuillaumeT (X) : EU regulations use "concentrated butter". http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLE... vs. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLE...
1 day 14 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you!"
2 hrs

premium butter

'Both cultured and uncultured butter types may also be premium, or European-style, meaning the butterfat content is extra-high. Premium butter is a pastry baker’s best friend. '

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Note added at 4 heures (2013-11-16 23:54:43 GMT)
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For those of you who want imperatively European references, here is premium butter from Europe :-)

http://www.saumweber.biz/images/stories/pdf/e_premium butter...
Example sentence:

'Both cultured and uncultured butter types may also be premium, or European-style, meaning the butterfat content is extra-high. Premium butter is a pastry baker’s best friend. '

Reference:

http://www.organicvalley.coop/recipes/features/butter-up-a-pastry-baking-primer/

Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : That may work in your country, but wouldn't be understandable in, for example, the UK, where other types of 'premium butter' are available; this almost seems to describe 'ordinary' European butter!
1 hr
I have a link from Germany with exactly the same reference to the same butter: premium butter :-) http://www.saumweber.biz/images/stories/pdf/e_premium butter...
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : agree with Tony. "premium" is too vague. You haven't understood his comment about you looking at this "from a transatlantic perspective"
4 hrs
well that is indeed what is used in the litterature about the subject (visit links :-)
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1 hr

patissier butter

quite simply

http://lechef.be/index.cfm?Content_ID=703768099.html

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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-11-17 01:19:27 GMT)
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"Patissier" is a well-known and used term but you could keep the French term and add in brackets "High butter-fat content"

NOTE it is not just high fat (as Tony has suggested) BUT high butter-fat content


here's a UK ref.
http://www.callbakolondon.com/chilled/butter-and-soft-margar...
http://www.callbakolondon.com/contact/

Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : I think that's a non-translation cop-out, and not a term that would be widely understood in an EN-speaking context; note your ref is from BE.
30 mins
not a cop-out at all. See note above.
neutral Lorraine Dubuc : I don't like Frenglish very much
5 hrs
I lived in Quebec so I know what you mean and neither do I but "patissier" is a word commonly used and understood in English.
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2 hrs

high fat content butter for baking

I am not aware of the specific technical term used in EN (if indeed there is one), but I feel this would be an accurate and not too clumsy description of what it actually is.

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Note added at 13 hrs (2013-11-17 08:46:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As G2 correctly points out, it should of course be 'high butterfat content', but in view of Asker's context of an ingredients list, I felt it unnecessary and clumsy to repeat 'butter' twice.

Do let's please note that 'high butterfat content' is NOT the same as 'concentrated butter', which is a product that has been processed, and then has to be reconstituted afterwards — even though the meanings sound in everyday language as if they ought to be the same!

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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:26:51 GMT)
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Goodness, the plot (if not the butter!) thickens!
According to this manufacturer's documentation (in FR):

http://www.lactalischf.fr/visuels/fiches_techniques/37516.pd...

their own 'beurre pâtissier' is indeed 'concentrated butter' — BUT their product package label in EN reads 'anhydrous milk fat'; getta load of that!

HOWEVER, it just might be that this is the term Asker needs for her ingredients list: short, succinct, and sounds suitably technical!

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Note added at 3 days2 hrs (2013-11-19 21:34:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Quoting the reference kindly found by sbgaut:

http://terroirs.denfrance.free.fr/p/fiches_pratiques/beurre....

After having separately mentioned 'beurre concentré', it goes on to say:

"Il existe également un beurre commercialisé sous le nom de "beurre pâtissier-glacier" ou "beurre pâtissier". C'est un beurre subventionné et constitué à 25% de beurre reconstitué."

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Note added at 3 days2 hrs (2013-11-19 21:36:52 GMT)
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It does also talk about the "Matière Grasse Laitière Anhydre (MGLA)" which the other manufacturer I mentioned refers to in EN as 'anhydrous milk fat', and which I think would be the most appropriate term for a list of ingredients — cf. things like 'hydrogenated vegetable oil' etc.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : not just "high fat" but high butter-fat content.
4 hrs
Well, yes, but I was trying to keep it as short as possible for Askers ingredients list :-(
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Reference comments

22 hrs
Reference:

Wafflings

Not quite sure that strictly speaking "beurre pâtissier" and "-concentré" are the one and the same :http://www.sante.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/Presentation_lipides_produi... (Cf. Slide 9)


Can even end up in court : http://www.juricaf.org/arret/FRANCE-COURADMINISTRATIVEDAPPEL...

"Beurre concentré" appears to have a minimum fat content of 99.8% :
http://www.dgf.fr/francais/produit/txt_sup/06127.txt
"Si le beurre provenant de l’intervention est transformé en beurre
concentré, la totalié du beurre attribué doit être transformée en beure
concentré d’une teneur minimale en matières grasses de 99,8 % et doit
fournir au minimum 100 kilogrammes de beurre concentré par 122,5
kilogrammes de beurre utilisé."

Is this the same thing as "beurre patissier"?

There are also references to "beurre-pâtissier-glacier" thus, I suppose, used in the making of pâtisserie and ice-cream. If it is in fact "beurre concentré" transformed in one particular way for pâtisserie and in another for ice-cream, are we then talking about the same thing?






--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:03:19 GMT)
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http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLE...

For the CE reguation 2571/97.

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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:03:32 GMT)
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Article 5.

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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:04:16 GMT)
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Scratch the DGF reference, which should be the eur-lex one. AN editing eerror. Sorry.

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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:08:29 GMT)
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http://terroirs.denfrance.free.fr/p/fiches_pratiques/beurre....

And indeed, different types of "beurre concentré":
http://www.beuralia.fr/Beuralia/sa_indus.aspx?site=BEURALI&l...

From which it would appear that "beurre pâtissier" is in fact a substype :
-Beurres traditionnels 82% MG
Beurre 82%MG
Beurre 82%MG « frais »
Beurre 82%MG Biologique
Beurre 82%MG Bretagne

-Beurre texturé 82%MG
Beurre texturé HPR : Homogène Plastique Régulier 82%MG

-Beurres concentrés 99,8%MG
Beurre concentré quatre-quart
Beurre concentré Pâtissier

- Beurres concentrés à Point de Fusion Spécifique
Beurre concentré croissant-feuilletage PF 36-38°C
Beurre concentré liquide à T°C ambiante PF 9-10°C
Beurre concentré haut PF 42°C
Beurre concentré à PF spécifique PF22 à PF35°C

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Note added at 22 hrs (2013-11-17 17:10:33 GMT)
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http://www.easydroit.fr/jurisprudence/Cours-administratives-...

It would be helpful to have some decent context here!

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Note added at 1 day25 mins (2013-11-17 19:25:12 GMT)
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http://www.francemagazine.org/articles/issue78/article156.as...

Maybe consider using the French?

"BEURRE PÂTISSIER Also known as beurre concentré and beurre pasteurisé déshydraté, it contains no water and has a 99.8 percent fat content, compared with the 80 to 82 percent fat content of regular butter. Using this butter requires the addition of water to recipes."
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Tony M : No further context really needed, Nikki: everyone in the trade here knows what it is. 'beurre pâtissier' is more concentrated than usual, but isn't necessarily what we call 'concentrated butter' in EN — whence the problem.
13 mins
I see your point, but I was trying to make a distinction, as if there is one, and it's used, then it may help in determining the solution. Or then again not! ;-). It is not, for example, a "beurre concentré à PFS", but I digress.
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1 day 16 hrs
Reference:

ref.

BEURRE PÂTISSIER Also known as beurre concentré and beurre pasteurisé déshydraté, it contains no water and has a 99.8 percent fat content, compared with the 80 to 82 percent fat content of regular butter. Using this butter requires the addition of water to recipes.

http://www.francemagazine.org/articles/issue78/article156.as...

PÂTISSIER est un beurre concentré destiné spécialement à la confection des pâtes levées et brioches.

http://www.lechef.be/index.cfm?Content_ID=263273451.html
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1 hr
Reference:

if one looks on the www...........

Beurre Pâtissier" is butter that is 99.8% butterfat made specially for raised pastries, cakes, brioches, and choux pastry. It is made through centrifugal force that forces out almost all water and milk solids other than fat. It will be 25% reconstituted butter (butter derived from concentrated butter.)
http://www.cooksinfo.com/beurre-patissier



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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-11-17 01:22:14 GMT)
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Le beurre concentré (ou beurre pâtissier)

Dans ce beurre, on a éliminé par fonte douce, décantation, centrifugation pratiquement toute l'eau et la matière sèche non grasse. Il contient au minimum 99,8% de matière grasse laitière anhydre (MGLA).
http://www.maison-du-lait.com/fr/les-produits-lait/beurres

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Note added at 2 days22 hrs (2013-11-19 17:09:06 GMT)
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BEURRE PÂTISSIER Also known as beurre concentré and beurre pasteurisé déshydraté, it contains no water and has a 99.8 percent fat content, compared with the 80 to 82 percent fat content of regular butter. Using this butter requires the addition of water to recipes.
http://www.francemagazine.org/articles/issue78/article156.as...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Tony M : Brilliant research ;-)
44 mins
agree philgoddard
1 hr
agree Rachel Fell : ;-) http://www.dhaeze.be/boter.php?language=engels - and the rest...;-)
4 hrs
love the Dunglish bakker's butter /Wow, yes, it's 100% Dungish! Happens a lot. A native NL speaker has translated French directly into Dunglish. Butter with a savoury parfume. Words run together NL style (butterproducts). All so typical.
agree EvaVer (X) : yes, of course, but in English? waterless butter?
12 hrs
concentrated butter. It's also official EU speak.
agree Mark Nathan : Yes, it has a different consistency at different temperatures compared to normal butter. I remember a French pastry chef who would use it for his puff pastry and delighted in giving me a knowing wink as if it was some kind of trick.
15 hrs
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : A number of sources do suggest that "beurre concentré" and "-pâtissier" are synonymous. Hwvr, if they are, I don't see how it can be "derived from concentrated butter" and yet synonymous.//See what you mean, but I was basing this comm on your first source
20 hrs
well, it's not a one-off. what is derived from concentrated butter? Asker provides NO context whatsoever. The question refers to something made with this butter. I think it's important not start to introduce confusion unnecessarily.
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