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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

de bastante representación[18th C]

English translation:

fairly/rather/quite imposing

Added to glossary by Carol Gullidge
Oct 22, 2013 09:47
10 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term

de bastante representación

Spanish to English Art/Literary History
A dated turn of phrase I also found in ABC (but please try not to work from this). My context is a monk writing in 1753, describing the monastery he lives in: "sus edificios son como amontonados, porque aunque el buque es grande, fue hecho a remiendos y sin planta. Compónese de tres patios, y ***el de las procesiones es de bastante representación***".

As working copy (placeholder?) I have "quite ceremonial". I'm looking for something better.

"Buque" is in its old sense as capacity (aforo). The place is strictly landlocked.

Thanks for any help!
Proposed translations (English)
1 +2 fairly imposing
3 +2 quite impressive
4 very characteristic
4 most august/ most stately (o bien: quite august/stately)
3 most dignified/appropriate
2 Quite noble
Change log

Oct 24, 2013 22:19: Carol Gullidge Created KOG entry

Discussion

Manuel López Oct 22, 2013:
I think you are right Charles. I think so also because the asker Parrot has send me a message telling me that the monastery has parts of many styles (tomanic, gothic, neoclassic) and also is beatiful. Therefore, I'm sure the monastery have a lot of characteristic parts.
Parrot (asker) Oct 22, 2013:
"Dignity" does it Despite the monk's other comments, I take the phrase as positive, implying "worthy (properly representative) of (an ancient Benedictine monastery)" during the counter-reformation (the courtyard was Baroque). Most particularly as he mentions processions. I know I've interpolated quite a lot at this point, but I've read enough of the research to be confident. Thanks to you all!
Charles Davis Oct 22, 2013:
With great respect to Manuel, I don't think native speaker intuitions are necessarily reliable with archaisms like this. I've done some browsing in pre-1800 books, using Google Books, and found confirmation of the meanings previously proposed here.

As a matter of fact, Simon, the meaning of "representación" you are using, from the Diccionario de autoridades, I believe correctly, is still in the DRAE to this day:

"2. f. Autoridad, dignidad, categoría de la persona. Juan es hombre de representación en Madrid."
http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=representación

OK, it does say "de la persona", but other examples can be found of the same meaning applied to inanimate objects.
Simon Bruni Oct 22, 2013:
Tricky one Manuel has thrown a nice spanner in the works; his answer makes logical sense and he is a native speaker, unlike the rest of us.
Parrot (asker) Oct 22, 2013:
ThX! Added it to "favorites"
Simon Bruni Oct 22, 2013:
The old RAEs This link should work:

http://buscon.rae.es/ntlle/SrvltGUISalirNtlle

Proposed translations

+2
5 mins
Selected

fairly imposing

based purely on your "placeholder"!
Note from asker:
Loved it, Carol!
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : Your instincts were sound!
1 hr
thanks Charles! Obviously, Parrot was pretty close...
agree philgoddard
9 hrs
thanks Phil!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "A big thanks to everybody. This answer just filled the bill."
11 mins

Quite noble

Following your lead, too.
Something went wrong...
+2
17 mins

quite impressive

The astonishingly good RAE dictionaries dating back to the 18th century are searchable here:

http://buscon.rae.es/ntlle/SrvltGUIMenuNtlle?cmd=Lema&sec=1....

My answer is based on sense 3 of "representación" in the 1737 dictionary
Note from asker:
Wow, Simon, what a resource! I'll look for that! (Unfortunately the link no longer works for me)
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis
1 hr
agree Robert Forstag : The sense definitely seems to be "visually striking." I suppose that if one wanted to go whole hog here and use phrasing reflecting 18th century English, then "of noble cast" or "to which all eyes were drawn" might work. But this seems fine.
1 hr
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2 hrs

very characteristic

Hello Parrot

I think that we must think, in this case, in a more literaly way. When the monk says that the ceremony building is de bastante representación, he means that the building is arquitectonicly representive, characteristic. With only a look you can make it out.
That's also make sense with the rest of the context. Because he says that the others buildings have been made without any significant skills.

I hope this can help you
Note from asker:
Hi Manuel, I tried all readings intially and this didn't work. The monastery began as Romanesque and archaeology indicates it was beautiful. By the monk's time, however, there were Gothic and, in particular, Renaissance and new Baroque parts. The monk's text was dug up in research because the current building is Neoclassical and we have little idea of his period. But the hodge-podge is probably why he says "a remiendos y sin planta"; however, that's hard to believe because the best architects were always at work and archaeologists have been able to retrieve some old "plantas".
Something went wrong...
14 hrs

most dignified/appropriate

If it refers to the roadway especially designated for the processions, and he describes them in a very modest way, then perhaps "most dignified" is the closest wording to being "fairly well represented" which is the literally translation and of course, it won't cut it.
Note from asker:
Thanks, but if the "tres patios" are the courtyards, they are (in monkish architecture) the middle space of a cloister, and the processional walkway would be the ambulatory (it wasn't especially designed for processions - in the same sense as Santiago's Obradoiro, for example - but let's grant it was used, ok). "Bastante" is literally "enough/sufficient". However, all irony aside, it's a notorious between-the-lines pseudoqualifier. So register-wise I don't see how I can fit in anything categorical.
Something went wrong...
1 day 5 hrs

most august/ most stately (o bien: quite august/stately)

No nos olvidemos de que 'bastante' tiene otra acepción, aparte de la de 'lo que basta, suficiente', a saber: "3. adv. c. No poco. Es bastante rico Bastante bella" - o sea, mucho. Es la segunda que recoge el DRAE. Otro adverbio que funcionaría es 'quite'.

Y 'most' como adverbio en inglés puede significar 'muy', o ingl. 'very': "Adv. ... 3. (intensifier): a most absurd story. Collins Concise English Dictionary © HarperCollins Publishers::

"How ought Christians to appear in the presence of the God of armies, if what is most august and most elevated in heaven acknowledges its ..." http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=688447

"...the pillars of heaven tremble, would stoop to dwell in so straight a prison as that which shuts in all that is most august in the adorable Trinity?..." The Blessed Sacrament Or the Works and Ways of God By Frederick William Faber. http://books.google.com

"Thomas Heywood: A True Description of his Majesties Royall and most stately Ship called the Soveraign of the Seas, built at Wolwitch in Kent 1637." www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Shipbuilding/Heywood(1638).html‎
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