Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
la forzada a ser siempre escurridiza poética
English translation:
(this author's) always deliberately elusive poetics
Added to glossary by
Charles Davis
Mar 20, 2013 07:58
11 yrs ago
Spanish term
la forzada a ser siempre escurridiza poética
Spanish to English
Other
Linguistics
Discourse analysis
For the last part, I'm thinking to say 'always elusive poesy', but the first part has me stumped.
Independientemente de si su alta ocurrencia en los textos de este autor responde al deseo de adecuar el discurso al lenguaje natural, por su incidencia en momentos clave y por constituir un factor decisivo a la hora de plasmar el retrato discursivo de todos los actores del texto, creemos que a través de su estudio será mucho más viable afrontar el siempre problemático deseo de conocer la intención del autor. Es por esta razón que con la exposición de aquellos marcadores del discurso (en concreto, reformuladores) que Dostoievski solía emplear probablemente se dé un paso no solo hacia la comprensión de** la forzada a ser siempre escurridiza poética** de este autor, sino más bien hacia la comprensión de cómo acontece la comunicación cuando el lector da o, mejor dicho, (re)crea el sentido de los textos de Dostoievski durante la lectura.
Independientemente de si su alta ocurrencia en los textos de este autor responde al deseo de adecuar el discurso al lenguaje natural, por su incidencia en momentos clave y por constituir un factor decisivo a la hora de plasmar el retrato discursivo de todos los actores del texto, creemos que a través de su estudio será mucho más viable afrontar el siempre problemático deseo de conocer la intención del autor. Es por esta razón que con la exposición de aquellos marcadores del discurso (en concreto, reformuladores) que Dostoievski solía emplear probablemente se dé un paso no solo hacia la comprensión de** la forzada a ser siempre escurridiza poética** de este autor, sino más bien hacia la comprensión de cómo acontece la comunicación cuando el lector da o, mejor dicho, (re)crea el sentido de los textos de Dostoievski durante la lectura.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +1 | (this author's) always deliberately elusive poetics | Charles Davis |
5 | Always forced elusive poetics | Patricia Urrutia |
3 | the obligatory, always ambiguous nature of the poetry | Jane Martin |
Change log
Mar 27, 2013 08:22: Charles Davis Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+1
2 hrs
Selected
(this author's) always deliberately elusive poetics
First of all, and very importantly, "poética" doesn't refer to poetry here. It means the nature of the author's literary discourse, the underlying rules of his literary art. Its meaning is expressed in the fourth DRAE definition of "poética":
"4. f. Conjunto de principios o de reglas, explícitos o no, que observan un género literario o artístico, una escuela o un autor."
In English, it is called "poetics". This use of the word goes back to Aristotle's literary treatise Poetics, basically about dramatic art. Dostoyevsky may have written some poetry, though he is not known for it (in his first novel we find this memorable quotation: "As for poetry, I may say that I consider it unbecoming for a man of my years to devote his facilities to the making of verses. Poetry is rubbish. Even boys at school ought to be whipped for writing it", though this may not reflect D's own view); this passage must be referring to his novels. There is a famous book by Mikhail Bakhtin called Problems of Dostoevsky's Poetics.
I am sure "elusive" is the best word for "escurridiza": difficult to grasp, difficult to pin down, not obvious.
The difficult word here is "forzada". It literally says that D's poetics were "always forced to be elusive". This doesn't really work well as a translation, I feel. I think it must mean "forced by the author", and therefore I think this can be interpreted as "deliberately". I don't think it means "inevitably", because "forzada" implies that something has been done to make the author's poetics elusive.
By using an adverb for "forzada a ser", I think we can follow the syntax of the Spanish; the pre-posed adjectival phrase is still a bit cumbersome, but I think acceptable: "this author's always deliberately elusive poetics". Alternatively, you could say "this author's poetics, which are always deliberately elusive", but I find that produces a more awkward sentence structure, and there's also the constant problem of whether "poetics" is a singular or a plural noun (practice varies on this).
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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-03-20 10:12:11 GMT)
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Then again, perhaps the author did mean "inevitably"; I'm not entirely sure.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2013-03-20 12:17:07 GMT)
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Or perhaps the most accurate rendering for "forzada a ser" would be "perforce": "this author's always perforce elusive poetics". This is not such a strange expression in literary critical discourse.
"historical knowledge is always perforce conjectural"
http://books.google.es/books?id=UPzEu9uqazQC&pg=PA52&lpg=PA5...
Though if you choose this it would probably be better to rearrange the phrase and say something like "this author's poetics, which is/are, perforce, always elusive".
"4. f. Conjunto de principios o de reglas, explícitos o no, que observan un género literario o artístico, una escuela o un autor."
In English, it is called "poetics". This use of the word goes back to Aristotle's literary treatise Poetics, basically about dramatic art. Dostoyevsky may have written some poetry, though he is not known for it (in his first novel we find this memorable quotation: "As for poetry, I may say that I consider it unbecoming for a man of my years to devote his facilities to the making of verses. Poetry is rubbish. Even boys at school ought to be whipped for writing it", though this may not reflect D's own view); this passage must be referring to his novels. There is a famous book by Mikhail Bakhtin called Problems of Dostoevsky's Poetics.
I am sure "elusive" is the best word for "escurridiza": difficult to grasp, difficult to pin down, not obvious.
The difficult word here is "forzada". It literally says that D's poetics were "always forced to be elusive". This doesn't really work well as a translation, I feel. I think it must mean "forced by the author", and therefore I think this can be interpreted as "deliberately". I don't think it means "inevitably", because "forzada" implies that something has been done to make the author's poetics elusive.
By using an adverb for "forzada a ser", I think we can follow the syntax of the Spanish; the pre-posed adjectival phrase is still a bit cumbersome, but I think acceptable: "this author's always deliberately elusive poetics". Alternatively, you could say "this author's poetics, which are always deliberately elusive", but I find that produces a more awkward sentence structure, and there's also the constant problem of whether "poetics" is a singular or a plural noun (practice varies on this).
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-03-20 10:12:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Then again, perhaps the author did mean "inevitably"; I'm not entirely sure.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2013-03-20 12:17:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Or perhaps the most accurate rendering for "forzada a ser" would be "perforce": "this author's always perforce elusive poetics". This is not such a strange expression in literary critical discourse.
"historical knowledge is always perforce conjectural"
http://books.google.es/books?id=UPzEu9uqazQC&pg=PA52&lpg=PA5...
Though if you choose this it would probably be better to rearrange the phrase and say something like "this author's poetics, which is/are, perforce, always elusive".
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, Charles!"
58 mins
the obligatory, always ambiguous nature of the poetry
Would this work? Just to get the ball rolling : )
Example sentence:
Dostoevsky’s work is less precise, more ambiguous.
6 hrs
Always forced elusive poetics
It is the best way to put it in English. The Spanish phrase seem forced to me.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Charles Davis
: But "forzada a ser escurridiza" is not the same as "forzada (y) escurridiza", is it? And I get no sense from the passage that the author considers D's poetics to be "forced" (which means unnatural, lacking in spontaneity, over-ingenious).
13 mins
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No, It is not the same. It seems like the author wants to say that D's poetics is obligated to be unatural in his style. The phrase in Spanish didn't make too much sense to me.
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Discussion