This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
при отстранении
РЕГЛАМЕНТ РАБОТЫ ЗАО XYZ С ОРГАНАМИ ГОСУДАРСТВЕННОЙ ВЛАСТИ
Apr 30, 2010 19:04
14 yrs ago
Russian term

диагоналевый

Russian to English Art/Literary Textiles / Clothing / Fashion
The context is a Russian book from 1928 in which a character asks his wife to sell his диагоналевый студенческий мундир.

I know that диагональ is a kind of fabric ("плотная ткань из хлопчатобумажной или шерстяной кручёной пряжи. Для Д. характерны резко выраженные рубчики на поверхности, расположенные под углом больше 45° к кромке ткани." - БСЭ) but I'm thinking what's the best translation into English.

I thought of "twill," since twill "shows a distinct diagonal wale on the face" (several internet sources repeat this working) or "is a type of fabric woven with a pattern of diagonal parallel ribs" (Wikipedia).

But I'm not convinced that the ribbing or wale of twill is the same thing as the рубчики of диагональ - aren't these рубчики more like the ribs of corduroy?

So, could it be that диагональ is not just twill, but some kind of special corduroy with a diagonal wale that we don't have a special term for in English?

Thank you!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 gabardine
3 diagonal

Discussion

Rachel Douglas Apr 30, 2010:
Different contexts, I suppose There's no law that gabardine need be expensive, or necessarily wool. As Webster's notes, it may be "made of various fibers." Here's a 1936 (to get into the asker's general time frame) description/complaint about U.S. Olympic ski team uniforms during the Depression, from the Atlantic: "Light blue knickerbockers of a cheap gabardine, blue sweat shirts with USA on the front, turtle-neck jerseys, a cap that looks like a New Hampshire farmer's, and a skater's knitted headpiece!" And here's a description of Edgar Allan Poe at his death in 1849 (anachronistic, if gabardine was really developed by Burberry later that century): "In place of his own suit of black wool was one of cheap gabardine, with a palm leaf hat." As for "serge," no way is it only for linings. Go to Google Books - "Books", to get the older refs - and search "serge coat" or "serge jacket"; as the dictionary says, it's historically been used especially for uniforms: jackets, tunics, vests, coats, etc. Works well because it's twilled on both sides. If the context necessitates stressing cheapness, one adds the adjective "cheap." But gabardine or serge can be good-quality, too; good enough to sell, as in the context here.
Natalia Potashnik Apr 30, 2010:
Gabardine is expensive, usually wool, fabric. диагональ is cheap worn by students. Serge (саржа) is too thin for a coat shell, it is only good for lining, although it does have diagonal ribs.

Proposed translations

+3
8 mins
Selected

gabardine

... or twill? "Gabardine" was the first thing that popped into my head. Went to Yandex images and found this about "Габардин" under a reference to "мелкие диагоналевые рубчики". Now I'll go to the dictionary and try to understand the difference between twill and gabardine.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2010-04-30 19:14:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

By "this," I mean this:
http://forum.sirumem.com/showthread.php/5632-Ткани?s=951e24b...
Search for "диагонал on the page.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2010-04-30 19:16:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Twill. 1) a fabric with a twill weave (gabardine and serge and twills)
2) or twill weave : a basic textile weave producing an allover surface pattern of fine diagonal lines or sibs usually all running to the left or right and made by floating weft or warp threads over groups of two or more threads and staggering these floats regularly or irregularly to form a slanting line.... (gabardine has a steep twill).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2010-04-30 19:19:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Gabardine. 3. a firm durable fabric with a steep twill weave forming fine distinct diagonal ribs on the right side that is given a smooth hard finish with or without sheen and is made of various fibers and in many weights for clothing.

OK, so now I'm about to take it back and propose "serge" - only because I have a notion of people in Russian novels walking around in serge jackets, but not in gabardine, and one would have to research when gabardine began to be called that, and is it only for light-weight clothing, like the stuff I used to sew out of it, and baseball caps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2010-04-30 19:21:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Serge. a durable twilled fabric having a smooth clear face and a pronounced diagonal rib on the front and the back, made in various weights from worsted, wool, cotton, silk, or rayon, and used especially for suits, coats, and dresses.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2010-04-30 19:23:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Cx. to above (twill dictionary entry): "gabardine and serge are twills."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2010-04-30 19:29:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Another reason to choose "SERGE" - "Serge is a type of twill fabric which has been classically used in uniforms and suiting for centuries." Gabardine was invited in the late 19th century, became famous when used in polar expeditions around 1908 - 1911. Difference is that with serge the ridges are on both sides of the fabric, with gabardine only on one. ... Well, if there's no possibility to research which type of fabric was used in your historical setting, you could safely stick with "twill." I don't think you need worry about corduroy; it seems the рубчики can be very fine, and being at an angle is definitely characteristic of the twill weaves.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 27 mins (2010-04-30 19:31:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

invented not invited
Peer comment(s):
agree Judith Hehir : with your final answer: serge
24 mins
Thanks, Judith. I was glad of the opportunity to look these things up. In my own experience, "serge" was something in 19th century novels, while "gabardine" my grandmother, mother, and home ec teacher talked about, and I sewed with it. Never knew the diff
agree koundelev : I support serge or "pure wool serge"
6 hrs
Thanks, George.
agree Maria Fokin : with "serge"
14 hrs
Thanks, Maria.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This is a very thorough answer, and addresses the issue wonderfully! Thank you! "
2 hrs

diagonal

diagonal cloth or simply diagonal.

Диагональ - дешевая плотная хлотчатобумажная ткань с характерным косым рубчатым рисунком. Сама в студенческие годы носила пошитые собственоручно брюки из диагонали. Ткань была куплена из соображений дешевизны и хорошей носкости. Не уверена, что в английском существует точный эквивалент.

Something went wrong...
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search