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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

manifeste (Arts)

English translation:

declaration

Added to glossary by kashew
Mar 20, 2010 10:01
14 yrs ago
9 viewers *
French term

manifeste

French to English Social Sciences Anthropology museum exhibition
This comes in a quote from a French politician about the exhibition:
'En cela, parce qu'il y a possibilite d'une mise en relation avec d'autres productions culturelles, ce lieu est un manifeste, porteur d'un message fort.'
Is there a better word than 'manifesto' we would use in UK English?
Proposed translations (English)
4 declaration
3 +3 (public) statement
4 +1 manifesto
4 drumbeat
Change log

Mar 21, 2010 11:46: kashew Created KOG entry

Discussion

Bourth (X) Mar 22, 2010:
That's what I call a dictionary! A little laborious to use, maybe, but intensely informative.
No, no "Merriam" in there. It's the "Webster's New World College Dictionary", previously titled "Webster's New World Dictionary of American English, third College Edition", its name being "a registered trademark of Simon&Schuster".
Jim Tucker (X) Mar 22, 2010:
An historical dictionary's orientation results in definitions being listed in chronological order of their first attested appearance in the language, rather than with reference to contemporary meanings (whether by frequency or by perceived preference, a notorious bugbear) as most dictionaries. It also will not remove obsolete words (or usages, though even descriptive dictionaries may retain the latter with words still in use) from listings, particularly if these appear in major authors--all the more so if earlier meanings, no matter how obsolete or thinly attested, help to clarify current definitions.

That Webster's you've got is a Merriam-Webster's right? A (to me) interesting situation: "Webster's " by itself is not under copyright. You and I could put out a Webster's this afternoon. Come to think of it...
Bourth (X) Mar 22, 2010:
I too am curious to know what is meant by "historical dictionary". One that lists words used only up till a certain date? One that lists all words used up until the date of preparation (as opposed to one that lists only words of current usage, say)? One that gives etymologies and dates of first usage? (my SOED gives dates, my Webster's doesn't). OED probably fits the second definition, which does not by any means make it antiquated, just thorough!
Jim Tucker (X) Mar 22, 2010:
I'm afraid ...you are confusing the two meanings of "historical dictionary." The ODE is descriptive, where the OED is historical in orientation. The difference has less to do with "cashing in" than in fact its opposite: evidently the people at the ODE are not making sufficiently clear the distinction between the two works.

Furthermore, with English gaining some 4000-5000 new words and usages each year (notoriously hard to count but a decent ballpark figure), it would be hard to say that anything in print is the "last word" (no pun I'm sure!) nowadays-- certainly with regard to English, which tends to elude canonization.

The current OED staff have recognized a problem with the sluggishness of the OED's response to changes in the language, and have changed their manner of working: http://www.languagehat.com/archives/003067.php

The Internet has also changed their manner of maintaining entries: http://www.oed.com/news/updates/revisions0706.html

The OED3 will address this issue in its own way, but I wouldn't expect it until about 2040.

But admittedly we venture far afield from a discussion of manifesto.
mportal (asker) Mar 22, 2010:
The fact that the OED contains small historical references (cf your example under 'bachelor', which is a small qualifying reference for a word that has different inferences in historical context) does not make it a historical dictionary. The Oxford English Dictionary has always been seen as the last word on current English word definitions, (and not the Oxford Dictionary of English, which must be somewhat different, and, from the name, would appear to be cashing in on the reputation of the OED).
Jim Tucker (X) Mar 21, 2010:
The OED ...most certainly is an historical dictionary (have a look at the first definition of "bachelor", for example), as suggested by its full original title, which contains the phrase..."on historical principles."

The Oxford Dictionary of English, by contrast, is a descriptive dictionary, albeit much smaller in scope.

I assure you I did not mean to be patronizing, and am sorry for that. I have, however, seen people refer to the OED in these forums, and get into trouble by using it as a tool for translation. I feel that it should never be a first resort, and should only be used at all if one is aware of the principles on which it is organized, and of its consequent (and other) shortcomings as a practical reference work for one translating contemporary texts.

Though it may be a politician speaking, the text is not "about a politician." The speaker unambiguously places the word "manifeste" in a cultural context. (Not to belabor the point; forgive me if I have.)
mportal (asker) Mar 21, 2010:
I think there is a misunderstanding, here. I never said it was the exclusive preserve of politicians, simply that, as it was a politician giving this speech (- and manifesto is definitely in current usage in the UK to mean the policies of a political party, I live in the UK and that is definitely the case ). As it is about a politician, it could cause confusion to call it a manifesto. The OED is by no means a historical dictionary. There are historical dictionaries published by the OUP, but the one I refer to is a dictionary of current usage, and much more authoritative on the matter than Wikipedia. I find the comment 'use with care!' a little patronising.
Just to be clear about this, I have not, at any point, said that manifesto cannot be used about cultural matters.
I could also say that, from the sentence I have quoted, I don't know how Phil Goddard can presume that I am misrepresenting the person who wrote the text.
philgoddard Mar 21, 2010:
I think this is a classic example of translators saying "I know better than the person who wrote the original text". Manifeste means manifesto! As Jim and others point out, this word is far from being the exclusive preserve of politicians.
Jim Tucker (X) Mar 21, 2010:
Not the artists using it, no--but the speaker intends this usage figuratively rather than literally (there's no document involved either, after all). Probably in the speaker's mind is one of the Larousse definitions, specifically : "Exposé théorique par lequel des écrivains, des artistes lancent un nouveau mouvement."

The OED is of course an historical dictionary, rather than a period one (use with care! -- but that's another subject). I think since the first world war or so that "manifesto" is used at least as commonly of cultural movements than of political ones -- and the last 30 years or so have even seen the rise of the "technology manifesto" such as the Cyborg or the Hacker's.

(just running on -- chalk it up to coffee, no need to take this seriously)
mportal (asker) Mar 21, 2010:
You may be correct in the sense that manifesto does seem to be used for a kind of 'art with a mission'. However, it wasn't the artists using it, here, and if we refer to the OED instead of Wikipedia, it is, very definitely, a mainly political idea:
'public declaration of policy and aims esp. as issued before an election by a political party, candidate, government etc.
It is possible that this is different in the US, but in the UK it definitely has political connotations. Nothing specifically about art is mentioned in the OED, although if art entails this kind of declaration, you probably could describe the artist(s) as having a manifesto.
Jim Tucker (X) Mar 21, 2010:
"manifesto" more common in art than in politics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_manifesto
mportal (asker) Mar 21, 2010:
As it is part of a speech by a politician, and isn't a political issue that is being discussed, really, I thought 'manifesto' was misleading.
Gabrielle Leyden Mar 21, 2010:
Why not manifesto? "Manifeste" is strong and means what it means. Why not the equally strong term "manifesto?"
Jim Tucker (X) Mar 20, 2010:
can't see anything better than "manifesto"
mportal (asker) Mar 20, 2010:
Could it mean 'press release', do you think?
mportal (asker) Mar 20, 2010:
To add other context:
there is a heading 'Le Manifeste de xxxxxx - 1990'
'En 1990, xxxx publie dans la presse le manifeste...(title) (about worldwide works of art)
and another 'Les arts premiers au yyyy(museum): manifeste et polemiques'.

Proposed translations

1 hr
Selected

declaration

* ...carrying a strong message.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, kashew. This is what I used, although in one place I also used 'public statement' (for the reason given in the note, above)."
+3
5 mins

(public) statement

Maybe.
Peer comment(s):
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : is making a clear statement...
15 mins
Thanks a lot!
agree Rebecca Davis : or just "makes a statement"
1 hr
Thanks a lot!
agree John Detre : with Rebecca, "makes a statement"
1 hr
Thanks a lot!
neutral philgoddard : I don't see what's wrong with manifesto.
7 hrs
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12 mins

drumbeat

Wishing more to be poetic than primally artistic about it, you could say the place is a drumbeat carrying a vibrant message.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 mins (2010-03-20 10:20:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Drums being of course a means of communication used by native peoples, and also a means of rallying people, particularly the military (traditionally at least), but also any group (e.g. protest marchers), to a cause. In days of yore, the town crier, if he didn't have bell, had a drum to call attention to his proclamations. ... And all's well!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 56 mins (2010-03-20 10:58:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Possibly different meanings
My first impression was that it was manifeste as in Déclaration écrite par laquelle un parti, un groupe de personnes, un homme politique, etc., définit ses vues, son programme, justifie son action passée [Larousse Lexis] even though I find that definition somewhat weak. Of course here it is not a written statement, but a "brick-and-mortar" statement, a proclamation, a badge, a token.
Then you throw at us "xxxx publie dans la presse le manifeste...(title) (about worldwide works of art)" which suggests it might be "manifest" as in a ship's or plane's manifest listing goods and persons carried (in your case a list of artworks throughout the world).
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+1
5 hrs

manifesto

In the art world, this word has a long established history since the early 20th century, and is currently still very much in use.

"The Art manifesto has been a recurrent feature associated with the avant-garde in Modernism. Art manifestos are mostly extreme in their rhetoric and intended for shock value to achieve a revolutionary effect. They often address wider issues, such as the political system. Typical themes are the need for revolution, freedom (of expression) and the implied or overtly stated superiority of the writers over the status quo. The manifesto gives a means of expressing, publicising and recording ideas for the artist or art group—even if only one or two people write the words, it is mostly still attributed to the group name.
The first art manifesto of the 20th century was introduced with the Futurists in Italy in 1909, and readily taken up by the Vorticists, Dadaists and the Surrealists after them: the period up to World War II created what are still the best known manifestos. Although they never stopped being issued, other media such as the growth of broadcasting tended to sideline such declarations. Due to the internet there has been a resurgence of the form, and many new manifestos are now appearing to a potential worldwide audience. The Stuckists have made particular use of this to start a worldwide movement of affiliated groups.
Manifestos typically consist of a number of statements, which are numbered or in bullet points and which do not necessarily follow logically from one to the next. Tristan Tzara's explanation of the manifesto (Feeble Love & Bitter Love, II) captures the spirit of many:
“ A manifesto is a communication made to the whole world, whose only pretension is to the discovery of an instant cure for political, astronomical, artistic, parliamentary, agronomical and literary syphilis. It may be pleasant, and good-natured, it's always right, it's strong, vigorous and logical. Apropos of logic, I consider myself very likeable.

Some examples:
Seminal 1909–45
Futurist Manifesto 1909
Vorticist Manifesto 1914
Dada Manifesto 1916
De Stijl 1918
Surrealist Manifesto 1924
Art Concret
Manifesto of Mural Painting 1933
Manifesto: Towards a Free Revolutionary Art 1938
Post-war 1946–59
White Manifesto 1946
Refus global 1948
Sculptors' First Manifesto 1949
Mystical Manifesto 1951
Les Spatialistes Manifesto 1952
Un Art Autre 1952
Gutai Manifesto 1956
Auto-Destructive Art Manifesto 1959
Neo-Concrete Manifesto 1959
Manifesto of Industrial Painting 1959
Counterculture 1960–75
Situationist Manifesto 1960
The Chelsea Hotel Manifesto 1961
I Am For An Art... Manifesto, 1961
Fluxus Manifesto 1963
S.C.U.M. Manifesto 1967
Maintenance Art Manifesto 1969
AfriCobra Manifesto 1970
WAR Manifestos early 1970s
Women's Art: A Manifesto 1972
Collectif d'Art Sociologique manifesto 1974
Body Art Manifesto 1975
A Manifesto on Lyrical Conceptualism 1975
Punk and cyber 1976–1998
Crude Art Manifesto 1978
Smile Manifestos 1982
International Association of Astronomical Artists Manifesto 1982
Cheap Art Manifesto 1984
A Cyborg Manifesto 1985
What our art means 1986
Post Porn Modernist Manifesto c.1989
A Cyberfeminist Manifesto for the 21st Century, 1991
Group Hangman 1997
Extropic Art Manifesto 1997
Stuckist manifesto 1999
How to Write an Avant-Garde Manifesto (a Manifesto) 2006
The Remodernist Film Manifesto 2008
The Superstroke Art Movement Manifesto 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_manifesto

Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard
2 hrs
cheers, phil
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