May 29, 2009 05:54
15 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
France
36 years experience on 4 continents
Native in: French 
, English
Works in: English to French, French to English
passage du tam-tam à Internet
French to English
Social Sciences
Telecom(munications)
"Le passage souvent direct du tam-tam à lnternet est un atout considérable pour le bon développement du commerce régional et international en Afrique"
Meaning, technological development has jumped from the use of "tam-tam" to the Internet (often by-passing fixed telephone lines, etc.) in some parts of Africa.
"tam-tam" carries some strong colonial undertones in French which should be avoided in E.
(in an international workshop paper on industrialization in Africa)
Meaning, technological development has jumped from the use of "tam-tam" to the Internet (often by-passing fixed telephone lines, etc.) in some parts of Africa.
"tam-tam" carries some strong colonial undertones in French which should be avoided in E.
(in an international workshop paper on industrialization in Africa)
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +4 | from talking drums to the Internet |
Bourth (X)
|
| 4 +8 | leap from bush telegraph to the Internet |
Serge F. Vidal
|
| 3 | from the grapevine to the Internet |
Sheila Wilson
|
Proposed translations
+4
5 mins
Selected
from talking drums to the Internet
I'm not sure this SHOULD be less "colonial" in English than it might appear to be in French, but "talking drums" is certainly more PC than "jungle drums".
From talking drums to the Internet : an encyclopedia of communications technology / Robert Gardner, Dennis Shortelle. ...
www.lib.umich.edu/mtagger/items/view/1408
From Talking Drums to the Internet. This is a very interesting book concerning communications. As an aside, corporations loose billions of dollars every ...
www.books4smarts.com/?p=313
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Note added at 6 mins (2009-05-29 06:01:28 GMT)
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From jungle drums to the Internet ... find Jerusalem Post articles. Matt Nesvisky Jerusalem Post 09-05-1997 They call it the Newseum, which is the kind of ...
www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-3882507.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2009-05-29 06:11:45 GMT)
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Talking drums are hour-glass shaped with two heads (made from either goat, lizard, or fish skin) tuned by straps that connect the heads with each other. ...
The words for "talking drum" in various languages
Language Word
Akan Dondo
Gomua Odondo
Twi Dondo
Dagbani, Gurunsi Lunna or Donno
Hausa, Kalangu
Songhai Doodo
Wolof, Mandinka Tama or Tamma
Bambara, Bozo, Dyula Tamanin
Yoruba Dundun, Gangan
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_drum
"tam-tam" may well be a deformatoin of the Wolof "Tam(m)a", Bambara "Tamanin".
Under ideal conditions, the sound can be understood at 8 km (5 miles), but interesting messages usually get relayed on by the next village. "The talking drums" or "jungle drums" is also a euphemism for gossip - similar to "the grapevine"....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_(communication)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2009-05-29 09:32:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Not an expression that would have come to me naturally, but there's "jungle telegraph" too, which might have a more local consonance than "bush telegraph", though this would undoubtedly work for southern Africa.
In 1876, The Reno Evening Gazette ran an article about a bumper corn and grape crop. They commented on the fact that the people who were then called Indians and Negroes seemed to be already aware of it (hardly a surprise you might think as it would have been they who had harvested the crops):
"It would seem that the Indians have some mysterious means of conveying the news, like the famous GRAPEVINE TELEGRAPH of the negroes in the [American Civil] war. The Pioneer Press and Tribune says that, while the first telegraphic news of Custer's death reached them at midnight, the Indians loafing about town were inquiring about it at noon."
The term 'BUSH TELEGRAPH' ORIGINATED IN AUSTRALIA, probably influenced by 'grapevine telegraph'. That referred to the informal network that passed information about police movements to convicts who were hiding in the bush. It was recorded in 1878 by an Australian author called Morris:
"The police are baffled by the number and activity of the bush telegraphs."
In the UK it was the 'JUNGLE TELEGRAPH' - referring to communications in outposts of the British Empire around the same period
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/heard-it-through-the-grap...
JUNGLE TELEGRAPH
1. (idiomatic) A system used by primitive cultures in remote tropical regions for communication over long distances, such as drum sounds or a relay of runners.
o 1958, "Live Virus in the Jungle," Times, 11 Aug.,
Working both sides of the stream, they got native chieftains to pass the word by jungle telegraph.
2. (idiomatic) A gossip network; an informal communication system within a group or organization.
o 2008, Lisa Marsh "‘Hills’ Under Tents," New York Post, 5 Feb. (retrieved 19 Sep. 2008),
And the jungle telegraph at Bryant Park is alive with rumors that the show's biggest name, Lauren Conrad, will be here any day.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jungle_telegraph
The "JUNGLE TELEGRAPH" in Washington is booming with news of the Iran NIE. I am told that the reason the conclusions of the NIE were released is that it was ...
turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2007/12/the-senate-and.html
The explorer and journalist, Stanley, - famous for having found Dr Livingstone - when he was travelling the Congo river (now the River Zaire), was mystified to find that the villagers knew he was coming in advance. Of course the answer to the mystery was the TALKING DRUM. The drum is made from a tree trunk, hollowed out and shaped. Depending on how you hit it, different notes are produced which can sound like the local language. A means of communicating ideally suited to a country with dense forest, where one cannot see from one village to the next. Another very apt name for the drums is the ‘JUNGLE TELEGRAPH’
http://www.samhallas.co.uk/telhist1/telehist.htm
but soon the JUNGLE TELEGRAPH brought news of others. The message was plain and urgent, and it was signalled forward mile by mile as silent-footed ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=8120613376...
From talking drums to the Internet : an encyclopedia of communications technology / Robert Gardner, Dennis Shortelle. ...
www.lib.umich.edu/mtagger/items/view/1408
From Talking Drums to the Internet. This is a very interesting book concerning communications. As an aside, corporations loose billions of dollars every ...
www.books4smarts.com/?p=313
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 mins (2009-05-29 06:01:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
From jungle drums to the Internet ... find Jerusalem Post articles. Matt Nesvisky Jerusalem Post 09-05-1997 They call it the Newseum, which is the kind of ...
www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-3882507.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2009-05-29 06:11:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Talking drums are hour-glass shaped with two heads (made from either goat, lizard, or fish skin) tuned by straps that connect the heads with each other. ...
The words for "talking drum" in various languages
Language Word
Akan Dondo
Gomua Odondo
Twi Dondo
Dagbani, Gurunsi Lunna or Donno
Hausa, Kalangu
Songhai Doodo
Wolof, Mandinka Tama or Tamma
Bambara, Bozo, Dyula Tamanin
Yoruba Dundun, Gangan
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_drum
"tam-tam" may well be a deformatoin of the Wolof "Tam(m)a", Bambara "Tamanin".
Under ideal conditions, the sound can be understood at 8 km (5 miles), but interesting messages usually get relayed on by the next village. "The talking drums" or "jungle drums" is also a euphemism for gossip - similar to "the grapevine"....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_(communication)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2009-05-29 09:32:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Not an expression that would have come to me naturally, but there's "jungle telegraph" too, which might have a more local consonance than "bush telegraph", though this would undoubtedly work for southern Africa.
In 1876, The Reno Evening Gazette ran an article about a bumper corn and grape crop. They commented on the fact that the people who were then called Indians and Negroes seemed to be already aware of it (hardly a surprise you might think as it would have been they who had harvested the crops):
"It would seem that the Indians have some mysterious means of conveying the news, like the famous GRAPEVINE TELEGRAPH of the negroes in the [American Civil] war. The Pioneer Press and Tribune says that, while the first telegraphic news of Custer's death reached them at midnight, the Indians loafing about town were inquiring about it at noon."
The term 'BUSH TELEGRAPH' ORIGINATED IN AUSTRALIA, probably influenced by 'grapevine telegraph'. That referred to the informal network that passed information about police movements to convicts who were hiding in the bush. It was recorded in 1878 by an Australian author called Morris:
"The police are baffled by the number and activity of the bush telegraphs."
In the UK it was the 'JUNGLE TELEGRAPH' - referring to communications in outposts of the British Empire around the same period
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/heard-it-through-the-grap...
JUNGLE TELEGRAPH
1. (idiomatic) A system used by primitive cultures in remote tropical regions for communication over long distances, such as drum sounds or a relay of runners.
o 1958, "Live Virus in the Jungle," Times, 11 Aug.,
Working both sides of the stream, they got native chieftains to pass the word by jungle telegraph.
2. (idiomatic) A gossip network; an informal communication system within a group or organization.
o 2008, Lisa Marsh "‘Hills’ Under Tents," New York Post, 5 Feb. (retrieved 19 Sep. 2008),
And the jungle telegraph at Bryant Park is alive with rumors that the show's biggest name, Lauren Conrad, will be here any day.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jungle_telegraph
The "JUNGLE TELEGRAPH" in Washington is booming with news of the Iran NIE. I am told that the reason the conclusions of the NIE were released is that it was ...
turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2007/12/the-senate-and.html
The explorer and journalist, Stanley, - famous for having found Dr Livingstone - when he was travelling the Congo river (now the River Zaire), was mystified to find that the villagers knew he was coming in advance. Of course the answer to the mystery was the TALKING DRUM. The drum is made from a tree trunk, hollowed out and shaped. Depending on how you hit it, different notes are produced which can sound like the local language. A means of communicating ideally suited to a country with dense forest, where one cannot see from one village to the next. Another very apt name for the drums is the ‘JUNGLE TELEGRAPH’
http://www.samhallas.co.uk/telhist1/telehist.htm
but soon the JUNGLE TELEGRAPH brought news of others. The message was plain and urgent, and it was signalled forward mile by mile as silent-footed ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=8120613376...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Shankaran Viswanathan
: I know, Phantom, the ghost who walks, does not use cellphones but goes for these gadgets in a big way, with pigmy operators
14 mins
|
| agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
4 hrs
|
| agree |
Hazel O'Reilly (X)
6 hrs
|
| agree |
Lucy Hill
: I like the list of translations into various languages.
2 days 23 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks everybody. I've found JUNGLE TELEGRAPH with its local, conradian consonance very fitting."
+8
10 mins
leap from bush telegraph to the Internet
That kind of sentences should be avoided in French too. "tomtom" would be equally awkward in English (condescending). "Bush telegraph" is less charged and more idiomatic. But you're doing the writer a favour, here! ;-)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Bourth (X)
: Might be preferable to using the title of someone's book! However, my 1st impression, as a Kiwi, that it's a DownUnder expression, is confirmed by http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/heard-it-through-the-grap... . It's origin is Australian.
7 mins
|
| agree |
Charles Stanford
9 mins
|
| agree |
Anne Girardeau
: I like it
1 hr
|
| agree |
B D Finch
1 hr
|
| agree |
kashew
: international commerce couldn't have been very good pre-Internet!
4 hrs
|
| agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
4 hrs
|
| agree |
Adsion Liu
6 hrs
|
| agree |
Catherine Gilsenan
2 days 5 hrs
|
4 hrs
Sheila Wilson
Spain
Spain
Native in English
Spain
20 years producing 100% natural English
Native in: English (Variant: British) 
Works in: English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
from the grapevine to the Internet
If you want to avoid anything to do with jungle etc, then this could work - it couldn't possibly be derogatory as grapes are a relatively new, and important, crop.
Note from asker:
| I appreciate Sheila, Nikki, but grapevine is at odds with Tropical Africa (and the jungle) where no GRAPEvine has even been grown and no wine ever produced, to my knowledge. |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: I like this idea, but as the context is African, I think there are politically correct ways of rendering the French original with a related term in English. This one would have been lovely otherwise!
12 mins
|
|
Yes, it was a little tongue-in-cheek. Great for my area, though!
|
Discussion