Nov 16, 2008 09:28
15 yrs ago
French term
Mauritius
Meticulous, hard-working and dedicated
Native in: French (Variant: Standard-France)
Works in: French to English, English to French
combattre vent debout
French to English
Bus/Financial
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
Les élus de stations thermales sont immédiatement montés au créneau pour *combattre vent debout* cet amendement.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+2
2 hrs
Selected
to fight head-on
[NFG]
Let me start by acknowledging that this has already been suggested by Lundy, and in peer comments by both CH and MC — I just felt it was important enough to deserve being entered as an answer.
I think the nautical metaphor is a waste of time and any attempt to reproduce it in EN doomed to sounding clunky and contrived.
However, unless the writer was actually a nautical person, I suspect that the expression may not have been meant to have all the force that we sailors would associate with it — as MC has suggested, its being an "uphill struggle". I think here this probably just means 'to enter a head-on conflict' or 'to confront the issue head-on', without any necessary implication of 'fighting a losing battle' etc.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-11-16 12:01:04 GMT)
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As an afterthought, I wonder about 'make a stand against' — that would at least convey a bit more of the nautical image, since a boat that is head to wind (or 'in irons') may be stanbding still but not getting anywhere...
Let me start by acknowledging that this has already been suggested by Lundy, and in peer comments by both CH and MC — I just felt it was important enough to deserve being entered as an answer.
I think the nautical metaphor is a waste of time and any attempt to reproduce it in EN doomed to sounding clunky and contrived.
However, unless the writer was actually a nautical person, I suspect that the expression may not have been meant to have all the force that we sailors would associate with it — as MC has suggested, its being an "uphill struggle". I think here this probably just means 'to enter a head-on conflict' or 'to confront the issue head-on', without any necessary implication of 'fighting a losing battle' etc.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-11-16 12:01:04 GMT)
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As an afterthought, I wonder about 'make a stand against' — that would at least convey a bit more of the nautical image, since a boat that is head to wind (or 'in irons') may be stanbding still but not getting anywhere...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Damien Lacroix
: agree that there is no implication of "fighting a losing battle", and only more context could determine if they are facing strong opposition. Yet the expression being not that usual, it retain a certain force (the supposed heroic stance of the officials)
1 hr
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Merci, Pyren !
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| agree |
Catherine Gilsenan
: This seems the only expression in English that will fit the context!
4 hrs
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Thanks, Catherine!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks Tony"
16 mins
Frederique Taylor
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in French
Works in field
United Kingdom
You'll have my words!
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, French to English
fight against the wind
Vent debout (Marine) Vent soufflant de face, en sens contraire de la marche
+2
26 mins
to fight this "head to wind"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_into_the_wind
This is apparently the expression in English for "vent debout" and you'll no doubt want to keep the sailing metaphor.
If not I would say to "fight this head on"
http://www.streem.com.au/national/7374-obama-vows-to-fight-c...
This is apparently the expression in English for "vent debout" and you'll no doubt want to keep the sailing metaphor.
If not I would say to "fight this head on"
http://www.streem.com.au/national/7374-obama-vows-to-fight-c...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Charles Hawtrey (X)
: 'fight this head on' is the way to put it. Nautical jargon and station thermales do not have a great deal in common, usually.
21 mins
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Thanks - I agree, but don't you think that the ST would have said something else in that case? "prendre ce problème à bras le corps" or something like that? anyway, "fight this head on" sounds fine to me!
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| agree |
Martin Cassell
: As charles says. In any case, I suspect the infelicitous metaphor was almost accidental. If you're looking to replace one cliché with another, "fight xyz head on" would be very suitable.
1 hr
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Thanks - it would be interesting to know whether this station thermale is actually by the sea or not!
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+2
36 mins
stand up fiercely against
la métaphore nautique est-elle si importante dans ce qui semble être un texte journalistique?
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Charles Hawtrey (X)
: Agreed with your comment about a nautical metaphor.
12 mins
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thanks
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| agree |
Tony M
: I agree about dropping the uncomfortable nautical metaphor. Maybe "make a stand against..." might work too?
1 hr
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I stand by you
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1 hr
Ellen Kraus
Austria
Austria
Austria
more than thirty years of experience
Native in: German 
Works in: Greek to German, English to German, Greek to English, and 5 more.
to fight a fierce battle against serious obstacles (though the chances to win are poor)
headwind is a nautical term (steering against the wind is always a dangerous thing and needs much concentration and skill
1 hr
Martin Cassell
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
25 years as a specialist communicator
Native in: English (Variant: UK)
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
fight an uphill battle
Given the mixed metaphors in the source, I don't feel too inhibited about suggesting a shift to an infantry metaphor here!
Of course, this suggestion would also sit just as oddly as the original with any literal translation of 'monter au créneau' ... :-)
How about something like: "... have taken up arms in (what is likely to be) an uphill battle against ..."
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-11-16 11:17:51 GMT)
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Then again, we may be thinking far more closely about the use of language than the original author did -- see my discussion entry above.
Of course, this suggestion would also sit just as oddly as the original with any literal translation of 'monter au créneau' ... :-)
How about something like: "... have taken up arms in (what is likely to be) an uphill battle against ..."
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-11-16 11:17:51 GMT)
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Then again, we may be thinking far more closely about the use of language than the original author did -- see my discussion entry above.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: Though I can't help wondering if it doesn't- simply mean 'head-on confrontation', without the specific connotation of it being a particularly difficult task. Can't help feeling the original author wasn't really thinking what they were saying, as you say
41 mins
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Just so -- and not for the first time, nor I'm sure the last time, in the history of journalism! I think lundy got there first in the afterthought stakes.
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Discussion
I don't think the author is forgetting a headwind is unfavorable: this is the meaning of the expression, it reminds me of the much more usual "contre vents et marées": set against it whatever the resistance they face
A discussion of this phrase in the excellent "Langue sauce piquante" column of le Monde also highlights this décalage between usage and original sense: http://correcteurs.blog.lemonde.fr/2007/11/08/cest-violemmen...