Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
dérive
English translation:
dérive - in art theory context, don't translate (see discussion)
Added to glossary by
Melissa McMahon
Oct 16, 2007 23:41
16 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
Première dérive, etc.
French to English
Art/Literary
Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
Subtitles for different sections of an article on contemporary art theory:
Première dérive
Deuxième dérive
Troisième dérive
etc.
Première dérive
Deuxième dérive
Troisième dérive
etc.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 | First dérive, second dérive etc - don't translate | Melissa McMahon |
2 | First off-course (urban) exploration | MatthewLaSon |
2 | misunderstanding, confusion, misstep, lapse | David Vaughn |
Change log
Oct 18, 2007 01:05: Melissa McMahon Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
37 mins
Selected
First dérive, second dérive etc - don't translate
In this context, I believe "dérive" is a reference to the practice of "wandering", originally coined by the Situationists as an art practice, and often retained as a French word in English. It means to drift, obviously, in particular where this drifting is directed by random signs rather than planned in advance, so here it means "a set of random thoughts"
Even though this is not a physical "derive", I believe it is attempting to convey the same meaning.
Refs:
Theory of the Derive (Debord)
On the early situationist practice of urban drifting. ... One of the basic situationist practices is the dérive,(1) a technique of rapid passage through ...
www.bopsecrets.org/SI/2.derive.htm
Situationist International
Derive was a favorite practice of the Dadaists and the Surrealists. The derive, or drift, was defined by the Situationists as the "technique or locomotion ...
www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~setzer/page1.htm
http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~setzer/page1.html
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Note added at 40 mins (2007-10-17 00:22:05 GMT)
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Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dérive) notes this is sometimes translated as "drift", which could work, but for a contemporary art theory article, I think leaving "derive" as is will be understood and is more appropriate.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2007-10-17 15:54:50 GMT)
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It sounds like the right theoretical environment for keeping "dérive" - even though the word has become a term in English because of the situationists, I don't think this necessarily narrows the meaning too much, ie excludes it from being understood in the more ordinary sense it has in French. The problem is more, as Vaughn suggests, that English semi-equivalents *do* seem to narrow or skew the sense. I'd compare it to a word like "jouissance": there are English words for this and sometimes they should be used, but in certain contexts its appropriate to retain all the resonance of the French. But I do go on...
If I had to pick an English word, I'd go with "drift", because, like drifting ships, this means from that from a given point one goes off course, buffeted by currents beyond one's control.
Even though this is not a physical "derive", I believe it is attempting to convey the same meaning.
Refs:
Theory of the Derive (Debord)
On the early situationist practice of urban drifting. ... One of the basic situationist practices is the dérive,(1) a technique of rapid passage through ...
www.bopsecrets.org/SI/2.derive.htm
Situationist International
Derive was a favorite practice of the Dadaists and the Surrealists. The derive, or drift, was defined by the Situationists as the "technique or locomotion ...
www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~setzer/page1.htm
http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~setzer/page1.html
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 40 mins (2007-10-17 00:22:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dérive) notes this is sometimes translated as "drift", which could work, but for a contemporary art theory article, I think leaving "derive" as is will be understood and is more appropriate.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2007-10-17 15:54:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It sounds like the right theoretical environment for keeping "dérive" - even though the word has become a term in English because of the situationists, I don't think this necessarily narrows the meaning too much, ie excludes it from being understood in the more ordinary sense it has in French. The problem is more, as Vaughn suggests, that English semi-equivalents *do* seem to narrow or skew the sense. I'd compare it to a word like "jouissance": there are English words for this and sometimes they should be used, but in certain contexts its appropriate to retain all the resonance of the French. But I do go on...
If I had to pick an English word, I'd go with "drift", because, like drifting ships, this means from that from a given point one goes off course, buffeted by currents beyond one's control.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I had thought I would find a translation in English, but after doing some reading of my own, this does seem to be the best option. Especially since there is a section speaking specifically about the Situationists. So thank you."
1 hr
First off-course (urban) exploration
Hello,
While I full concur with Melissa, I'm not sure why there haven't been more attempts on translating this first notion. You could indeed try to translate it differently.
It's a theory based the Situationist, Guy-Ernest Debord You can read all about it online; it's not that hard to understand.
dérive = going off the beaten path in a familiar path with no intention other than to see things without preconceptions in an urban setting. Seeing urban landscapes and architecture as they really are and why they are why they are.
You could say "first, second, third dérive" because it is understood by the Art theorists, but I can't believe that no one tries to give it a real English translation.
I hope this helps.
While I full concur with Melissa, I'm not sure why there haven't been more attempts on translating this first notion. You could indeed try to translate it differently.
It's a theory based the Situationist, Guy-Ernest Debord You can read all about it online; it's not that hard to understand.
dérive = going off the beaten path in a familiar path with no intention other than to see things without preconceptions in an urban setting. Seeing urban landscapes and architecture as they really are and why they are why they are.
You could say "first, second, third dérive" because it is understood by the Art theorists, but I can't believe that no one tries to give it a real English translation.
I hope this helps.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Melissa McMahon
: I guess it's a bit like "readymade" and "happening" not being translated in French - its shorthand and unpacking it into one meaning leads to fights!
20 mins
|
True. I understand your point and expected such reactions. But, I'm going to put myself out there and give a real English translation. LOL.
|
9 hrs
misunderstanding, confusion, misstep, lapse
While Melissa may be right, this may also be the everyday meaning of dérive, which is something like a mistaken or involuntary path. The problem is finding an English word that doesn't have too much of a value judgement, because in everyday language, a dérive isn't necessarily bad - so the words I've suggested don't really fit the bill for me, UNLESS this text is, as I suspect may be the case, an indictment of contemporary art. Maybe someone else will have an idea.
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Note added at 17 hrs (2007-10-17 17:40:45 GMT) Post-grading
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Michelle, based on your info on the dérives, it seems to just be the author giving a sort of title to the sections - "1st chapter", etc. But his/her chapters are **meanderings**.
The text may offer an indication if the meanderings are meanderings from his/her path, or from the path of modern art.
Perhaps "1st musing" would work.
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Note added at 17 hrs (2007-10-17 17:40:45 GMT) Post-grading
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Michelle, based on your info on the dérives, it seems to just be the author giving a sort of title to the sections - "1st chapter", etc. But his/her chapters are **meanderings**.
The text may offer an indication if the meanderings are meanderings from his/her path, or from the path of modern art.
Perhaps "1st musing" would work.
Discussion
The Second Dérive is about Brazilian concretism.
The Third part is about Jackson Pollock and Lucio Fontana.
I haven't gotten to the fourth yet, but it looks like it is getting into French theory.