Sep 20, 2006 07:33
17 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
BA(Hons), Dip Trans IOL, MCIL London
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, English
neutre
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Mathematics & Statistics
water networks - calculation formulae
The term appears in the second paragraph below. Maths not being my subject, I really need to check the meaning of this word in this context. I have checked the glossaries, but it didn't really help in this case. I suspect it means something like 'neutral' or 'impartial'- but was confused by GDT's mention of an 'identity element', with reference to algebraic formulae. Can anyone help.
Oh, and for anyone who has answered my yesterday's questions, thank you - I will be grading them later today once I have finished this translation, promise!!!
Context:
Le cas des transferts et des ventes en gros
Le cas des transferts (ou exportation) d’eau d’un système à un autre, ou celui des ventes en gros, peut également poser problème puisque deux alternatives sont possibles:
• Les volumes mis en distribution ne concernent que les volumes produits ou achetés injectés dans le réseau : les transferts et ventes en gros sont considérés comme des clients normaux. C’est la méthode en vigueur chez LDEF.
• Les volumes mis en distribution se calculent comme la somme des volumes produits et achetés dont on déduit les transferts et ventes en gros : dans ce cas les transferts et ventes en gros sont évidemment déduits aussi des volumes consommés.
Le mode de calcul n’est pas **neutre** et la première alternative conduit à des valeurs de rendement plus élevées que la seconde. Considérons par exemple un réseau qui reçoit 200.000 m 3 : 120.000 m 3 sont facturés normalement et 50.000 m 3 font l’objet de ventes en gros ou d’un transfert. Suivant le mode de calcul utilisé on trouvera :
• un rendement de (120 + 50) / 200 = 85% (et une perte de 15%)
• un rendement de 120 / (200-50) = 80% (et une perte de 20%)
Oh, and for anyone who has answered my yesterday's questions, thank you - I will be grading them later today once I have finished this translation, promise!!!
Context:
Le cas des transferts et des ventes en gros
Le cas des transferts (ou exportation) d’eau d’un système à un autre, ou celui des ventes en gros, peut également poser problème puisque deux alternatives sont possibles:
• Les volumes mis en distribution ne concernent que les volumes produits ou achetés injectés dans le réseau : les transferts et ventes en gros sont considérés comme des clients normaux. C’est la méthode en vigueur chez LDEF.
• Les volumes mis en distribution se calculent comme la somme des volumes produits et achetés dont on déduit les transferts et ventes en gros : dans ce cas les transferts et ventes en gros sont évidemment déduits aussi des volumes consommés.
Le mode de calcul n’est pas **neutre** et la première alternative conduit à des valeurs de rendement plus élevées que la seconde. Considérons par exemple un réseau qui reçoit 200.000 m 3 : 120.000 m 3 sont facturés normalement et 50.000 m 3 font l’objet de ventes en gros ou d’un transfert. Suivant le mode de calcul utilisé on trouvera :
• un rendement de (120 + 50) / 200 = 85% (et une perte de 15%)
• un rendement de 120 / (200-50) = 80% (et une perte de 20%)
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +3 | values/results are dependent on/differ according to |
Dr Sue Levy (X)
|
| 4 +1 | has no effect on |
Tony M
|
| 3 +1 | is not unbiased |
a05
|
| 4 | **rephrase it** |
Terry Richards
|
| 4 | neutral |
Richard Benham
|
| 2 +1 | This probably wont help but.... |
Cervin
|
Proposed translations
+3
19 mins
Selected
values/results are dependent on/differ according to
the calculation method
Voilà, my last contribution to Kudoz. I'm withdrawing following the clean-up campaign to oust those who dare to criticise the site and speak out against censorship and over-regulation.
Voilà, my last contribution to Kudoz. I'm withdrawing following the clean-up campaign to oust those who dare to criticise the site and speak out against censorship and over-regulation.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Attila Piróth
: This is the meaning: the chosen calculation method is not irrelevant (as different methods yield different results).
59 mins
|
|
thanks Attila - your proposal is good too :-)
|
|
| agree |
Tony M
: Well done, Sue! Please keep in touch, I (we) need you!
3 hrs
|
|
Thanks Tony, I will always be available to help colleagues by email (pas sérieux s'abstenir ;-))
|
|
| agree |
Richard Benham
: See ya cobber.
3 hrs
|
|
round like a rissole - thanks RB :-)
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Graded on the basis of agreement...including mine. Pity answerer feels she has to leave the site."
+1
9 mins
is not unbiased
your understanding seems to be right
Where is the idetity element?
Where is the idetity element?
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Julie Barber
48 mins
|
| neutral |
Tony M
: Can't really use the word 'unbiased' about a calculation
3 hrs
|
|
unless they use calculation for misrepresentation?
|
16 mins
Terry Richards
France
France
Native in English
France
30 years in IT, Engineering degree.
Native in: English (Variants: British, UK, US) 
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
20
**rephrase it**
The calculation methods are not equivalent.
+1
43 mins
This probably wont help but....
I came across this Fr>En>Fr online mathematical dictionary a few weeks ago when translating something. It was fairly useful in a basic sort of way. It is just a list of translated mathemetical terms with no explanation of their meaning. However, guess what it came up with for 'neutre'? Yes, you've got it 'identity element' ! But- it has 'element' bracketed beside it so I thought even if this isnt the translation you are looking for this info might just help to eliminate that doubt (I'm no mathematician by the way!)
neutre (élément -) : identity element
http://www.math.unicaen.fr/~reyssat/dico/dicofa.html
element - one meaning as defined by the free online dictionary:
Mathematics
a. A member of a set.
There were other maths definitions but they were related to geometry.....
Good luck!
neutre (élément -) : identity element
http://www.math.unicaen.fr/~reyssat/dico/dicofa.html
element - one meaning as defined by the free online dictionary:
Mathematics
a. A member of a set.
There were other maths definitions but they were related to geometry.....
Good luck!
+1
3 hrs
has no effect on
"The method of calculation used has an effect on / affects the result..."
neutre = has no effect on
n'est pas neutre = does have an effect on
neutre = has no effect on
n'est pas neutre = does have an effect on
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Richard Benham
: Fine, but what's wrong with "neutral"?
58 mins
|
|
Thanks, RB! At the end of the day, and all things taken into account, probably nothing! More than anything, I was just trying to explain how it was being used...
|
4 hrs
Richard Benham
France
France
Native in English
Specializes in field
France
When quality counts
Native in: English 
Works in: German to English, French to English, English
neutral
There is nothing wrong with the bloody obvious here.
Let me make a couple of other points. This is *not* a mathematical term; the word is being used in its everyday sense. In any case, the terms "identity" and "identity element" belong in abstract algebra, and the concept may even be unknown to the author of the piece. People using mathematics in an applied sort of way tend not to deal with or even recognise such refined concepts as "identity element". And it wouldn't make any sense here anyway.
I also think the suggestions of Sue, Terry and Dusty are fine.
Let me make a couple of other points. This is *not* a mathematical term; the word is being used in its everyday sense. In any case, the terms "identity" and "identity element" belong in abstract algebra, and the concept may even be unknown to the author of the piece. People using mathematics in an applied sort of way tend not to deal with or even recognise such refined concepts as "identity element". And it wouldn't make any sense here anyway.
I also think the suggestions of Sue, Terry and Dusty are fine.
Discussion