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Fortschreibung
Patronalstiftung
Apr 19, 2018 08:18
6 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

sachlich-technische Gestaltungsthemen

German to English Social Sciences Education / Pedagogy
This appears as a title in a research report, where it is used to group the topics governance, leadership, assessment, standards and accreditation. Any ideas on how to translate this would be greatly appreciated.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 framework of substantive and procedural concepts
3 +1 Organisational matters
3 Fundamental principles / premises

Discussion

AngieD (asker) Apr 23, 2018:
Guys,
Thank you so much for this discussion - it has given me plenty of food for thought. I can't give any more details about the report because it is confidential. However, it is not about the content and organization of the report itself but rather a section on the various topics that come up in the related discourse. At the moment, I am going for Organisational (but still considering squeezing strategy/administrative in there somehow too....)

Best Angie
Björn Vrooman Apr 21, 2018:
Michael I haven't posted a disagreement because a) you don't have the full context; b) I'm willing to entertain the possibility that the translation could be used in some other context and c) it was a sunny day today.

However, a) there weren't a "lot of" claims--my list only went to "third"; b) Phil is right when he says "I don't think we can answer this without seeing the report" c) my German link below has absolutely nothing to do with form and content and d) your explanation of Gestaltungsthemen--"Themen, die den Bericht gestalten"--doesn't make much sense to me. Where do you take "die den Bericht" from? Gestaltungsthemen means Themen zur Gestaltung / die der Gestaltung unterliegen (i.e., creating something; cf below). Ex.:
"Die wellenförmige Gestaltung der seitlichen Bögen [...] und gerundete Formen im gesamten Innen- und Außenbereich stellen architektonische Bezüge zu den Gestaltungsthemen 'Fluss und Wasser' her."
http://seiltechnik-hemmerling.de/ludwigshafen.html

It's a design aspect. In Angie's case, it appears next to funktionale Themen in a report on case studies; some of them deal with technisch-sachliche Themen. It's not about a report at all.

Best
Michael Martin, MA Apr 21, 2018:
You're making a lot of sweeping assertions, Björn I am willing to buy it but I would have to see more of the source text for this to be convincing. If you are right, we need to hone in on finding solutions that fit your interpretation. So far, we're a little vague on that score.
Björn Vrooman Apr 21, 2018:
I'm sorry, Michael Your answer is not even remotely correct. Obviously, I cannot post the document Angie is translating and show you why, but here's probably a good example:
http://www.cluster-forstholzbayern.de/images/stories/downloa...

It says
- Zuwendungszweck
- Inhaltliche Grundbedingungen und Maßnahmenbeschreibung
- Sachlich-technische Grundbedingungen
- Verfahren

Sachlich-technische Grundbedingungen:
3.A Notifizierte Maßnahmen
3.A.1 Zuwendungsempfänger
3.A.2 Zuwendungsvoraussetzungen
3.A.3 Art, Umfang und Höhe der Zuwendung
3.B Freigestellte Maßnahmen
3.B.1 Zuwendungsempfänger
3.B.2 Zuwendungsvoraussetzungen
3.B.3 Art, Umfang und Höhe der Zuwendung

Nothing to do with form and content of the report; even without "of the report," this wouldn't be right.

Second, Gestaltungsthemen are not "Themen, die den Bericht gestalten"; that doesn't even make sense. I have already explained below what that means (policy crafting, etc.).

Third, my link says: "Risiken, die aus der Beschaffung und dem Einsatz der Betriebsmittel"

These are risks during the acquisition and operation of something; operational cf below.

Best
Björn Vrooman Apr 20, 2018:
Hello Angie I probably haven't explained it correctly. I wasn't saying you need to find two words. I was merely saying that while Lancashireman is right about "-technisch" usually being omitted when translating into English, we've got an entirely different use of "technisch" here. Think of it like technocracy, a highly bureaucratic (or administrative) system:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy

That's why I said "operational" because it's more about how the whole thing is run, I suppose. But that's, of course, close to administrative and organisational.

Here's another version if you want to have "Gestaltung-" in there somewhere:
http://www.csuprodev.com/crafting-policies-procedures

Best
AngieD (asker) Apr 20, 2018:
Thanks guys! I had been playing with the idea of policy - or even administrative - and it does indeed follow 'funktionale Themen'. Although I do still think I can omit "technisch"! Fortunately, I have a relatively free hand in the translation, so I can avoid the need for a translator's note.

Best, Angie
Björn Vrooman Apr 20, 2018:
Phil is right, Angie [You can google the phrase, Phil]

Content and organization is utter nonsense. Here's an example of "sachlich-technisch":
http://www.wirtschaftslexikon.co/d/sachlich-technische-risik...

It could be the counterpart to Personalthemen or "funktionale Themen" (as in your report, I assume).

Unfortunately, it also means that you can't omit "technisch" in this case.

I think (policy and) operational matters or something similar would be fine:
http://www.isleofman.com/news/video/85017/policy-and-operati...
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199798/ldselect/ldpu...

Best
philgoddard Apr 19, 2018:
I don't think we can answer this without seeing the report.
You should ignore the German, come up with a title that describes the contents of that section, and add a translator's note saying that a more literal translation would not make sense.

Proposed translations

2 days 12 hrs

Fundamental principles / premises

Sounds like it would come under this kin of header. Just a suggestion
Something went wrong...
+1
4 days

framework of substantive and procedural concepts

Gestaltung:
A framework adds structure which is the purpose of Gestaltung

sachlich = substantive
technisch = procedural
Themen = concepts
Peer comment(s):
agree Annika Hogekamp
6 days
Something went wrong...
+1
6 hrs

Organisational matters

It's not about the organisation of the report but about "governance, leadership, assessment, standards and accreditation", i.e. organisational matters within the (presumed) educational institute.
'Topics' are for debate rather than for a report. 'Themes' is more suited to an artistic production.
The '-technische' suffix can be cheerfully ignored. It seems to be used with the meaning 'related' rather than 'technical'.
The really troublesome word here is 'sachlich'.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2018-04-19 17:47:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Re -technische
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/manufacturing/5...
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/certificates_di...
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/cooking_culinar...

Re Themen
'Issues' if they are problematic
'Aspects' is a possibility
Or simply
Organisational matters > Organisational

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2018-04-23 11:04:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dear AngieD
Could you please ensure that you return to close this question sometime before 3rd May when the KudoZ robot will automatically select Content and Organization of the Report, which is on +2?
Thanks
AJS

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 days (2018-05-06 15:43:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"I am going for Organisational..." Thanks.
Please close the question one way or another, as none of the three proposals has received enough support to trigger the KudoZ robot after two weeks.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 182 days (2018-10-18 16:58:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Peer comment(s):
neutral Michael Martin, MA : "The really troublesome word here is 'sachlich'." Indeed. And you haven't covered it/No. I said topics structuring the report. That means Themen, die den Bericht gestalten
12 hrs
You have read Gestaltungsthemen as Gestaltung der Themen.
agree Björn Vrooman : This is way closer than the alternative, although technisch is the more important word here, IMO. See disc.
16 hrs
Hoppla! 'Content and Organization of the Report' has disappeared.
neutral Steffen Walter : I tend to agree with Björn here based on the additional information provided in the discussion area.
3 days 21 hrs
Thanks for revisiting this question.
Something went wrong...
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