https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/general-conversation-greetings-letters/7147858-re-dear-sir-or-dear-madam.html
Aug 16, 2023 13:24
9 mos ago
70 viewers *
English term

re: dear sir or dear madam

Non-PRO English Art/Literary General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters Is there any way to find out the gender of the Proz user?
Let's use the Proz example in the event a need to communicate with the Proz colleague occures.

Is there any way to find out the gender of the Proz user if:
* no any trace/indication within the profile text content regarding the person;
* no photo (babies, puppies, kittens appear frequently instead);
* no phone number, no e-mail address;
* a name may be a gender-neutral name or an androgynous name.

There was a good British custom to adding the following: (Mr.) or (Mrs.) or (Ms.) next to the name and surname line.
It is history, I suppose!

Thank you!
Change log

Aug 16, 2023 15:31: philgoddard changed "Field" from "Art/Literary" to "Other"

Aug 18, 2023 17:57: AllegroTrans changed "Field" from "Other" to "Art/Literary" , "Field (write-in)" from "gender " to "Is there any way to find out the gender of the Proz user?"

Discussion

Jacek Rogala (asker) Aug 18, 2023:
disagree numero uno
I think, you should probably evaluate the answer neutrally if you don't mind, because in your the same evaluation you one time criticize the answer and then praise it.

Jacek Rogala (asker) Aug 18, 2023:
disagree numero due
I used a "Let's use the Proz example" in the context to my question here since I do belive that a "Let's..." is a synonymic equivalent to a "say" which does not indicate that smth is to happen in the cartain place exclusively'.

Jacek Rogala (asker) Aug 18, 2023:
Talking to me, dear? :)
Did I post the errant question which in the EN/EN language pair treats the issue as the linguistic problem on a correctness?
The great translators from Proz have nicely and helpfully contributed to the problem here, none of them banished me to the forum.
And, finally, I beg your pardon, who you are to advise users to move problems to fora? No offense, maybe you're the appropriate one here.

AllegroTrans Aug 17, 2023:
This is not a translation (KudoZ) question Please use one of the ProZ forums or submit a support request
Jacek Rogala (asker) Aug 17, 2023:
Dear Christine, Interesting reading and instructive!
Thank you very much!

Christine Andersen Aug 17, 2023:
Man has embraced woman since time immemorial ... So my lecturer in law explained about using he and the masculine form irrespective of gender, unless referring specifically to a female such as a mother, wife, sister etc.

I also learned in the last century that it was correct to write Dear Sir to a person whose name and gender one did not know, but many people do not like it in 2023.
I even know straight men who snort and mutter: ´Don´t call me sir´.

I might write Dear Sir or Madam as a last resort, but first I would certainly consider all the other options suggested above.

I write Dear Accounts Team in mails accompanying my invoices, except when I know the name of the client's accountant, in which case I write ´Hi Inge´ or ´Dear Ms Sørensen´ to correspond with the way she signs her own mails. (The ones I know happen to be women.)
Life was simpler 50 years ago!
Jacek Rogala (asker) Aug 16, 2023:
True? I was told if the sex of the person to whom one is writing is unknown, Dear Sir, irrespective of sex, is the correct form.
The guy who told me that is the IT engineer.

Jacek Rogala (asker) Aug 16, 2023:
Isn't it risky to write a "Dear," exclusively?
What if a typo will happen... "Deer,"?

Jacek Rogala (asker) Aug 16, 2023:
"... most nouns don't have..."

let's take... the puppies mommy... she-dog, if a bitch is not being used...

philgoddard Aug 16, 2023:
I don't think gender is relevant here If I was writing to you, I'd say "Dear Jacek" or, more informally, "Hi Jacek". Even if I didn't know your gender, it wouldn't matter in English because most nouns don't have one.
Tony M Aug 16, 2023:
@ Asker The one thing you must avoid at all costs is just writing 'Dear' — on its own like that, this sounds like a very casual, informal term of endearment, utterly inappropriate for any kind of professional context. I get loads of e-mails starting like this with offers of work, etc., and they always go straight in the bin!
Tony M Aug 16, 2023:
@ Asker In a most formal register, you might use 'Dear Sir / Madam' (or replace the '/' with the word 'or') — even though it might seem more polite, it is not customary to write 'Dear Madam / Sir'
The problem arises, I agree, when you need to make it 'Dear Mr Smith', when you don't know if it mioght in fact be 'Ms Smith'. Several suggestions have been made below for workarounds, depending on the exact context.
As a last-ditch solution, you could even write 'Dear Tony Wood', where the use of the full name obviates any title. Personally, as a Brit, I still find this vaguely uncomfortable, but it is increasingly to be found these ays.
Tony M Aug 16, 2023:
@ Asker I agree, Mark's suggestion is the best solution!
It is not at all "very official" — it is just a polite, business-like, gender neutral way of addressing someone
If you do have a first name, you can just write 'Dear Tony' and no gender is implied or needed.
Dear Colleague and other similar terms could likewise be used.
Jacek Rogala (asker) Aug 16, 2023:
@Mark Thank you for you're asking me!
It's a good idea, though very official... sort of like - Your Highness - get rid of the problem - for instance.

Mark Robertson Aug 16, 2023:
@Jacek Why would you need to know the person's gender? Can you not address them as "Dear ProZ member"?

Responses

+1
6 mins
Selected

you may use just dear

:) Like in "Dear XXX, ...."
Note from asker:
Thank you very much for your contribution!
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M : Has to be used with care! Whilst in this forum use of first names may be appropriate, in very many other contexts it would not be (it's a very American thing, and doesn't always go down too well elsewhere).
55 mins
disagree Sarah Bessioud : Dear, on its own should be avoided, as Tony has mentioned in the discussion. Any email that starts in that way just goes straight to my bin. I agree, however, with your example of Dear xxx.
1 hr
agree Christopher Schröder : Those who don’t want to be called by their first name can always not share it, Mr M.
4 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "OK, dear! :)"