Glossary entry

Dutch term or phrase:

woekert half ondergronds de inflatie

English translation:

inflation carries on right below the surface

Added to glossary by Michael Beijer
Sep 24, 2015 07:44
8 yrs ago
Dutch term

ondergronds

Dutch to English Bus/Financial Economics socialistische economie vs westerse
De invloed van een labyrint van subsidies moet worden teruggedrongen. Intussen woekert half ondergronds de inflatie.
Change log

Sep 25, 2015 11:42: Michael Beijer Created KOG entry

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Nicole Coesel

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Discussion

freekfluweel Sep 25, 2015:
woekeren = geen/half grip hebben op figuratief gebruikt als in "het onkruid niet kunnen wieden"
Evgeny Artemov (X) Sep 24, 2015:
I thought about that, too. They hated indeed to admit openly/officially there was inflation on, at the time, although everybody was talking of it (until Yeltsin let prices loose in Russia on 2 Jan 1992). I think there should be a mention (of this or some eventual recognition of inflation) farther down the context.
freekfluweel Sep 24, 2015:
half ondergronds = oogluikend toestaan Kostprijsberekening zoals die nu op het programma van de perestroika staat, zal tot tot prijsverhogingen leiden.

Socialistische economen hebben met dat vraagstuk weinig ervaring. Tot voor een paar jaar 'bestond' dat verschijnsel daar niet.

Die nieuwe perestroikaanse prijberekening bevindt zich nog in een overgangsfase en die subsidies blijven toch (heimelijk) nog gegeven te worden (terwijl men daar juist van af wil)...

inflatie half erkennen
Evgeny Artemov (X) Sep 24, 2015:
Yeah, Mike, and, again, how does "half" go with "beneath the surface"?

(Not that I am obsessed with the word, but it does mean something, doesn't it? Would the Dutch here please confirm it may mean "to a certain degree/extent, but not entirely" here? Half begravene half dood is oke, but what about "half woekeren"?
Peter Simon Sep 24, 2015:
Michael, I agree with this on GB. Only thing is, it didn't happen so in the former socialist world. For one, the services sectors were a lot less prominent there and then.
Michael Beijer Sep 24, 2015:
‘woekeren’ Van Dale NL/EN:

voortdurend groeien ten koste van iets anders

onkruid: be / grow rank
kwaadaardig ook: be / grow rampant, be / grow rife
(biologie) proliferate

 context:
een woekerend gezwel = a festering / gangrenous / cancerous growth
woekerend onkruid = rank weeds, rampant growth of weeds
Michael Beijer Sep 24, 2015:
‘half ondergronds woekeren’ I think the meaning is related to something like this:

‘Whilst consumer inflation has fallen it is a complex picture and the headlines of zero inflation are misleading. Actually the oil price fall combined with falls in the price of other commodities has given us disinflation in the price of goods which is very welcome to many. If we look beneath the surface we see that services inflation carries on in its own not very merry way.’ (https://goo.gl/arinHz )
---
‘Inflation and the CPI

The British economy, we are told, is on the mend. After years of stagnation, […]

Yet scratch a little beneath the surface, and it is clear that this cheery picture does not match experience for many of us. A return to economic growth has not, yet, turned into a widespread feeling of prosperity.’ (http://www.realbritainindex.org/report/inflation-and-the-cpi )
---
“There are a lot of rumbling numbers beneath the surface,” he said by phone. “The concern I have is what happens if gasoline prices come back, and they’re starting to come back, and you could have a little burst of inflation.” (http://goo.gl/AcpZRz )
Peter Simon Sep 24, 2015:
Guys, I can't really agree with Evgeny's remark that inflation was "very much felt throught the socialist world" during the times of Perestroika as it wasn't that bad in Hungary and around as he mentioned (though he rightly left). We had around 40% annual infl. at worst.
My other feeling is that the text isn't quite right. The state was trying to follow inflation 'on the streets' by adjusting still-state-controlled prices like in public transport or prices of basic commodities. The higher rate in Russia/Ukraine must have resulted from shortage of goods that inflated the real prices of goods for those who couldn't directly get to them. The state found it hard to control this kind of inflation as it happened after goods were sold in the half-empty shops often to speculators and then re-sold at such highly inflated prices to masses. So it was a warped economy compared to what the West knows to be economics. But it was far less serious West of Russia/Ukraine/Moldova, as there was less shortage of goods in Middle-Eur. I'd call this not-so-correct "half ondergronds ... inflatie" 'street-level inflation' for want of anything similar in English.
But of course I could still be wrong.
writeaway Sep 24, 2015:
fwiw, half wouldn't necessarily be translated as half in any case.
Evgeny Artemov (X) Sep 24, 2015:
Inflation wasn't subterranean and cannot be "half subterranean", fuguurlijk of letterlijk. It was very much felt throught the socialist world at the time. My last experience with it was collecting my freelance fee (owed for 3 months), bringing a duffel bag with me. It weighed around 10 kG. One tightly-bound bundle contained 1000 one-ruble notes. I paid my airfare to Johannesburg with it, still unbundled and still bearing bank seals.
writeaway Sep 24, 2015:
Google translate of the Russian, for those who wish to ridicule this answer as well:
There is a suspicion,
that we are talking about deferred / latent (hidden) inflation, but in the case of dannos qualified - half (\ "half \"). The fact is that along with the hidden inflation in the USSR at that time (early 90s), there was an open and Private - a result of the fact that prices were kept at level 1 (and still growing deficit), and the open - as a result of that \ 'cooperatives \ "and other tools in droves to cash non-cash items - up to the complete lack of banknotes. That's where half. IMHO, of course.
Michael Beijer Sep 24, 2015:
I wonder if it might just be figurative … as in, ‘right below the surface’, or something like that? The author did just use the word ‘labyrint’ in the previous sentence.
Michael Beijer Sep 24, 2015:
I wonder what ‘subterranean inflation’ means. Is there a cave-dwelling economist in the house?
writeaway Sep 24, 2015:
Subterranean inflation Integration of Eastern Europe into the World Trading ... - jstor
www.jstor.org/stable/2006849JSTOR
by HB Junz - ‎1991 - ‎Cited by 22 - ‎Related articles
remained essentially different economic sys- ... sources from supplying command-economy markets to satisfying ... eliminate, the subterranean inflation and.

Real Deflation - Donald Luskin
www.trendmacro.com/luskin/pdf/20100223TrendMacroLuskinRK.pd...
Feb 23, 2010 - ... must be incorrect. One widely-followed economics .... think of this subterranean inflation as an ever-growing pressure, putting more and more ...
Lianne van de Ven Sep 24, 2015:
Helpt niet echt tenzij iemand uitlegt: 'met ondergrondse inflatie bedoelen we.....'. Als je zoekt op "underground inflation" (context: economy, politics; niet het ondergronds vullen van blaas met lucht oid), kom je verschillende contexten tegen waarin het wordt gebruikt. Het lijkt erop dat het in het algemeen betekent dat zelfs bij het bevriezen van prijzen, de inflatie (ondergronds) gewoon doorgaat.
Sterk (asker) Sep 24, 2015:
Oké, hier komt het hele stuk: Kostprijsberekening zoals die nu op het programma van de perestroika staat, zal tot tot prijsverhogingen leiden. De invloed van een labyrint van subsidies moet worden teruggedrongen. Intussen woekert half ondergronds de inflatie. Naarmate het isolement van het socialistische blok verder wordt opgeheven, zal de inflatie sterker worden. Socialistische economen hebben met dat vraagstuk weinig ervaring. Tot voor een paar jaar 'bestond' dat verschijnsel daar niet.
Lianne van de Ven Sep 24, 2015:
underground inflation wordt in het Engels ook gebruikt. De vraag is wat ermee bedoeld wordt, maar als zodanig kun je dat dus gewoon gebruiken.
writeaway Sep 24, 2015:
It's impossible to know the best way to translate what they are saying without seeing the actual article. There are many possibilities. You'll have to decide. Have you looked up what 'woekeren' and 'ondergronds' mean in English or Ukrainian/Russia? That's where you have to start.

Proposed translations

2 hrs
Dutch term (edited): woekert half ondergronds de inflatie
Selected

inflation carries on right below the surface

(or something along those lines)

See my discussion entries.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2015-09-24 09:48:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

half ondergronds woekeren’:

I think the meaning is related to something like this:

‘Whilst consumer inflation has fallen it is a complex picture and the headlines of zero inflation are misleading. Actually the oil price fall combined with falls in the price of other commodities has given us disinflation in the price of goods which is very welcome to many. If we look beneath the surface we see that services inflation carries on in its own not very merry way.’ (https://goo.gl/arinHz )
---
‘Inflation and the CPI

The British economy, we are told, is on the mend. After years of stagnation, […]

Yet scratch a little beneath the surface, and it is clear that this cheery picture does not match experience for many of us. A return to economic growth has not, yet, turned into a widespread feeling of prosperity.’ (http://www.realbritainindex.org/report/inflation-and-the-cpi )
---
“There are a lot of rumbling numbers beneath the surface,” he said by phone. “The concern I have is what happens if gasoline prices come back, and they’re starting to come back, and you could have a little burst of inflation.” (http://goo.gl/AcpZRz )

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2015-09-24 09:49:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

‘woekeren’:

Van Dale NL/EN:

voortdurend groeien ten koste van iets anders

onkruid: be / grow rank
kwaadaardig ook: be / grow rampant, be / grow rife
(biologie) proliferate

context:
een woekerend gezwel = a festering / gangrenous / cancerous growth
woekerend onkruid = rank weeds, rampant growth of weeds
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Ja, dat vind ik goede (en ook juiste) interpretatie, hartstikke bedankt!"
12 hrs

(Inflation had become a real but) unacknowledged (problem)

my suggestion that hopefully matches the gist of the meaning.
Note from asker:
Ook een mogelijkheid. Dank u wel!
Something went wrong...
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