Jan 1, 2018 12:06
6 yrs ago
31 viewers *
French term

un acte de disposition

French to English Law/Patents Law (general) Swiss criminal law
It is used in a specific context - as an element constituting a crime. It is enumerated in a list of elements constituting the crime of fraud as follows:
Cette infraction est composée des éléments constitutifs suivants: une tromperie astucieuse, une erreur créée ou confortée, un acte de disposition, un dommage et, sur le plan subjectif, l'intention et le dessein d'enrichissement illégitime.

What exactly does the exceedingly vague “disposition” mean here? Please do not tell me it's “disposal” or something equally vague - I actually need to translate this also into Czech, where there is no corresponding general sounding word, so I really need to understand the specific meaning here to be able to render it correctly.
Change log

Jan 1, 2018 12:06: changed "Kudoz queue" from "In queue" to "Public"

Jan 2, 2018 08:35: Karen Zaragoza changed "Vetting" from "Needs Vetting" to "Vet OK"

Proposed translations

-1
1 day 1 hr
Selected

a disposal of property // a transfer of ownership

literally: any action leading to the transfer of ownership of some property ("property" in the most general way - i.e. ANYTHING that can be "owned")

there isn't any specific mention in this ST that this "fraud" is exclusively about "immovable property" (which would require some formal "deeds" to be disposed of / transferred to a new owner),

having that in mind, "un acte de ..." must then be an action [un agissement / agir par commission] in the most general way, NOT "an act" in the sense of a formal written document.


"un acte de disposition" could very well be simply handing over some movable property to the fraudster (sans aucune autre forme de procès ...) - there is no need for any formal "deed" to transfer the ownership of movable property. Part of the "fraud" could very well be the fraudster tricking someone to "dispose of their property" by simply handing over a laptop, or some jewellery.

including "un acte de disposition" in the list of elements that define "fraud" simply means that there is no fraud is there wasn't any transfer of ownership - in whichever way.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2018-01-02 14:49:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

... if there wasn't ...
Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : "Property" is too restrictive; this is about dispoal of goods/things/assets etc. in general (such as to constitute fraud)
20 hrs
disagree GILLES MEUNIER : ça ne traduit pas acte
7 days
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you for your help!"
+2
1 day 1 hr

act of disposal

I see no reason why acte should not be translated to "act", a term used widely to describe criminal behaviour

Peer comment(s):

agree Daryo : but not with the explanation - here "the act of disposal" could also be done by the victim of the fraud, if tricked into selling dirty cheap or giving away their property.
1 hr
I think the list of elements of the offence implies that the "act of disposal" needs to be carried out by the acccused or induced in an innocent third party
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Looks quite possible. It would be nice to see CH sources tho' in relat° to the code pénal. I can find none. But yes, disposing of assets, the actus reus, rather than the paperwork involved. Makes sense in the list, but fldnt use of "acte de D" cld also.
2 hrs
yes, the list contains the elements of both actus reus and mens rea
agree Yvonne Gallagher : Thanks Chris! And back at you! Athbhlian faoí mhaise duit! Hope it's a good one. Been very busy with work over entire festive period (and up till 8th) so haven't sent many greetings this year
1 day 2 hrs
Thanks and Happy New Year!
agree B D Finch : Yes. Quite right to ignore the Asker's rather silly 'Please do not tell me it's “disposal”'!
2 days 1 hr
thank you and Happy New Year
disagree GILLES MEUNIER : un simple calque
4 days
try googling it and reading it in the light of how the expression is used by lawyers. See this example: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:620...
Something went wrong...
+1
23 hrs

a deed of transfer (of rights)

You say you do not want to hear that this means "disposal", but it can indeed mean just that. Rights in property/assets can be "disposed " of in a number of ways, as Jean-Marie points out in his reference post, including sale and gift, for example. "Disposition" covers various types of transfer is rights in property, but that does not make the term any the less specific.

You need to look to the appropriate Swiss definition and consider what options best suit your context. Although "acte" is not always best translated by "deed", it is often a good solution. That is likely to be the case here as rights in property are generally affected by deed.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2018-01-02 11:28:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Juts an note to point out that you will find a number of hits for "deed of sale", "deed of gift", etc. but those are specific to the type of disposal or transfer. Your original is more wide-ranging. My suggestion is not the only solution here.

You may need to addapt this suggestion to suit your target reader (e.g. US, UK, etc.) and your context more generally.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2018-01-02 11:40:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In fact, you will have gathered that "disposition" is not exceedingly vauge, indeed, it is not vague at all. A couple of Siwss sources to get you started:

http://www.lawscape.ch/doc/cc/possession.pdf

p.6 : "Un acte de disposition (acte par lequel le débiteur de
l’obligation de transférer ou de constituer un droit réel
manifeste sa volonté d’exécuter)"

p.7: "L’acte de disposition est une manifestation de
volonté de transférer la propriété, ceci suppose
que l’aliénateur dispose du bien en question."


https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classified-compilation/19070042/... and https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19070042/... where you can see that the term "disposal" is used in official Swiss sources in English.




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 4 hrs (2018-01-02 16:31:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Interesting point made by AT, whose suggestion that this refers to the act of disposal itself adn not the documet by which a transfer of property may occur.

Searches show the use of "acte de disposition" meaning the document by which transfer of rights in assets may be made. That transfer can of course be fraudulent. The list in which the term appears makes AT's reading a strong contender, probalby the most logical. I'd like to find uses of the term for Switzerland with this application though.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 4 hrs (2018-01-02 16:41:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

For "acte de disposition" in relation to "propriété" (to be read as title, ownerhip and not as "bien immobilier") : http://mcelegal.ch/upload/79_1.pdf, p10 in the body of the text : "Pour le transfert de propriété, un acte de disposition est en principe nécessaire en droit suisse, en plus d’un acte générateur d’obligation (la propriété ne s’acquiert pas par le seul effet des obligations). Ainsi, dans la logique juridique suisse, la stipulation pour autrui ne suffit pas à soi seule pour opérer le transfert de propriété : il faut encore qu’elle soit exécutée."



The second occurrence in this document of "disposition": http://www.fiduciaire-favre.ch/Documents/200303-fiscalite-tr...



Peer comment(s):

neutral Daryo : can't see anywhere in this ST that it's specifically about "des biens immobiliers" that would require formal deeds to be disposed of ... NOR in your (perfectly good) references!
1 hr
I don't suggest that it is to do with "biens immobiliers", altho' it cld be. // Your post is along the same lines. Note that you can transfer rights without transferring o/ship. ST not restricted to o/ship; see J-M's ref post.
neutral AllegroTrans : Surely this is about a criminal "act" not a legal document?
1 hr
Quite possibly, yes. I read the original as meaning a document enabling assets to be disposed of (or the rights in assets being transferred) fraudulently. Your answer is probably the correct reading as the actual act of disposal, by w/ever (f/ulent) means
agree GILLES MEUNIER
7 days
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

20 hrs
Reference:

Un acte de disposition est un acte par lequel on dispose d'un bien. Ce peut être par exemple la vente ou la donation. L'acte de disposition se distingue de l'acte conservatoire et de l'acte d'administration.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne
2 hrs
agree Daryo : can't see nothing "vague" in the concept of "disposing of your own property " ...
3 hrs
neutral AllegroTrans : OK but this is one meaning; I don't think we are in the realm of legal deeds or documents here
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search