Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
relever les éléments
English translation:
investigate/note/collect/identify/pick out systematically everything that...
Added to glossary by
Michael Meskers
May 5, 2017 18:24
7 yrs ago
18 viewers *
French term
relever les éléments
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Hi all -
I am translating a legal document from French (Luxembourg) and am curious how best to translate relever les éléments."
Here is the context:
Il appartient en effet au juge d’examiner si les conditions légales de l’action exercée by le demandeur sont remplies. Il peut relever d’office tous les éléments qui le déterminent à penser que l’une des conditions d’application de la règle invoquée fait défaut. En procédant ainsi, le juge ne relève pas d’office un moyen de droit. Il n’introduit dans le débat aucun élément nouveau, « le moyen est dans la cause » ( Cass. fr. citée. J. Cl. Proc. Civ., Fasc. 152; Principes directeurs du procès, no 49
relever - I don't know what this should be in this context.
I take "d'office" to be "automatically."
I suspect "éléments" might be "facts" but am unsure.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
I am translating a legal document from French (Luxembourg) and am curious how best to translate relever les éléments."
Here is the context:
Il appartient en effet au juge d’examiner si les conditions légales de l’action exercée by le demandeur sont remplies. Il peut relever d’office tous les éléments qui le déterminent à penser que l’une des conditions d’application de la règle invoquée fait défaut. En procédant ainsi, le juge ne relève pas d’office un moyen de droit. Il n’introduit dans le débat aucun élément nouveau, « le moyen est dans la cause » ( Cass. fr. citée. J. Cl. Proc. Civ., Fasc. 152; Principes directeurs du procès, no 49
relever - I don't know what this should be in this context.
I take "d'office" to be "automatically."
I suspect "éléments" might be "facts" but am unsure.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+1
3 hrs
French term (edited):
relever d'office tous les éléments qui...
Selected
note/collect/identify/pick out systematically everything that...
As I pointed out in my comment to François' post, I go along with his reading. The context from the sentence, is, in my opinion quite clear.
"Relever d'office tous les éléments qui..." here means to select those elements that are in support of whatever. How could you explain the point of "qui" here otherwise. It is not "tous les éléments", but specific ones, "the ones that/which".
The final phrasing and choice of verb will depend on how you are deailing with the rest of the sentence and the subject matter etc.
But this really does seem to be about picking out relevant/pertinent information from among a larger mass of information available.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2017-05-05 22:26:59 GMT)
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Here, "qui" is the key. ;-)
"Relever d'office tous les éléments qui..." here means to select those elements that are in support of whatever. How could you explain the point of "qui" here otherwise. It is not "tous les éléments", but specific ones, "the ones that/which".
The final phrasing and choice of verb will depend on how you are deailing with the rest of the sentence and the subject matter etc.
But this really does seem to be about picking out relevant/pertinent information from among a larger mass of information available.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2017-05-05 22:26:59 GMT)
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Here, "qui" is the key. ;-)
Peer comment(s):
agree |
B D Finch
: Yes, I'd also translate the phrase "tous les éléments", as "everything", rather than seeking a word-for-word solution for "éléments".
3 days 14 hrs
|
neutral |
Daryo
: there is a precise technical term "ex officio" - I don't see any reason to ignore it, especially in a specialised text.
4 days
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks Nikki!
I hope you don't mind but I added "investigate" to the list of possibilities."
6 mins
Check facts
My take
1 hr
to highlight/underline the facts/pieces of evidence
Acceptation of 'relever' in this context
1. [Le compl. d'obj. désigne une chose] (Faire) remarquer, mettre en relief. Synon. noter, souligner.Relever des empreintes, des traces; relever une contradiction, un défaut, une erreur; relever des fautes d'orthographe dans un texte; ne pas relever de charges contre qqn. Il se plaît à relever les beautés d'un ouvrage, au lieu d'en faire remarquer les défauts (Ac.).Les griefs relevés contre Picquart sont précisément ceux qu'on doit imputer à ses adversaires (Clemenceau, Vers réparation, 1899, p. 77):
4. ... les anachronismes qu'on a relevés dans ses œuvres [de Proust] étaient conscients, et destinés à substituer dans l'esprit de son lecteur, à la notion abstraite du temps astronomique, celle vivante, du temps psychologique, du temps vrai. Blanche, Modèles, 1928, p. 126.
Source: Le Dictionnaire T.L.F.I.
1. [Le compl. d'obj. désigne une chose] (Faire) remarquer, mettre en relief. Synon. noter, souligner.Relever des empreintes, des traces; relever une contradiction, un défaut, une erreur; relever des fautes d'orthographe dans un texte; ne pas relever de charges contre qqn. Il se plaît à relever les beautés d'un ouvrage, au lieu d'en faire remarquer les défauts (Ac.).Les griefs relevés contre Picquart sont précisément ceux qu'on doit imputer à ses adversaires (Clemenceau, Vers réparation, 1899, p. 77):
4. ... les anachronismes qu'on a relevés dans ses œuvres [de Proust] étaient conscients, et destinés à substituer dans l'esprit de son lecteur, à la notion abstraite du temps astronomique, celle vivante, du temps psychologique, du temps vrai. Blanche, Modèles, 1928, p. 126.
Source: Le Dictionnaire T.L.F.I.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: I think this is the intended meaning. "Relever (d'office) les éléments" means that the judge (systematically) selects "les éléments" from among all of the evidence available in order to demonstrate whatever is to be demonstrated.
2 hrs
|
disagree |
Daryo
: where do you see any "evidence" here: "examiner si les conditions légales de l’action exercée by le demandeur sont remplies" all I can see is legal capacity and formal requirements to take legal action.
14 hrs
|
1 hr
(collect and) collate evidence
https://www.lexisnexis.com/uk/lexispsl/environment/document/...
Contamination of land and the need to collate evidence when ... the need for clients to gather evidence of the level of contamination at a site ...
"d'office" means the judge does this evidence collection/collation on his own initiative (it's in intrinsec part of his job), not at the request of the parties
Contamination of land and the need to collate evidence when ... the need for clients to gather evidence of the level of contamination at a site ...
"d'office" means the judge does this evidence collection/collation on his own initiative (it's in intrinsec part of his job), not at the request of the parties
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Francois Boye
: relever is not the French for to collect
38 mins
|
agree |
writeaway
: for use of collect
2 hrs
|
neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: I see the idea of "collect" here, but the rest of the sentence needs to indicate how this involves selecting the pertinent information from among that evidence in order to demonstrate a particular point or points.
2 hrs
|
disagree |
Daryo
: collecting/collating evidence is the plaintiff's job - or for a "juge d'instruction" - not the case here
14 hrs
|
2 hrs
hear/take all the evidence
A judhe "hears" evidence or "takes" evidence
Unless he/she is an investigating magistrate, collate/gather is not correct
Judges hear evidence after father takes daughter on holiday in term ...
www.itv.com/.../judges-hear-evidence-after-father-takes-dau...
31 Jan 2017 - Read the latest Meridian stories, Judges hear evidence after father takes daughter on holiday in term time on ITV News, videos, stories and all
The Regulation provides for two means of taking evidence in another EU country: the court before which a case is heard in one EU country can request the competent court of another EU country to take the necessary evidence; or. it can instead, take evidence directly in another EU country.
Taking of evidence - European Commission
ec.europa.eu/justice/civil/judicial-cooperation/taking-evidence/index_en.htm
Unless he/she is an investigating magistrate, collate/gather is not correct
Judges hear evidence after father takes daughter on holiday in term ...
www.itv.com/.../judges-hear-evidence-after-father-takes-dau...
31 Jan 2017 - Read the latest Meridian stories, Judges hear evidence after father takes daughter on holiday in term time on ITV News, videos, stories and all
The Regulation provides for two means of taking evidence in another EU country: the court before which a case is heard in one EU country can request the competent court of another EU country to take the necessary evidence; or. it can instead, take evidence directly in another EU country.
Taking of evidence - European Commission
ec.europa.eu/justice/civil/judicial-cooperation/taking-evidence/index_en.htm
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Daryo
: A judge "hears" evidence or "takes" evidence - surely but AFTER accepting to deal with the case at all
19 hrs
|
21 hrs
French term (edited):
relever d’office tous les éléments
take into consideration ex officio all the elements
d’office = there is no need for the judge to wait that anyone asks him to do so, it can [even have to] to do it on its own initiative as its his duty to do so.
relever = here not only to spot the relevant information, but also to take it into account, to act on it
[Il appartient en effet au juge d’examiner si les conditions légales de l’action exercée by le demandeur sont remplies.] *** Il peut relever d’office tous les éléments qui le déterminent à penser que *** [l’une des conditions d’application de la règle invoquée fait défaut.]
=
... [the judge] can take into consideration ex officio any element that would lead him to think that ...
few samples:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=take into consideration ex...
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=take into consideration ex...
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Note added at 21 hrs (2017-05-06 15:58:11 GMT)
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this is about the stage where the judge has to decide whether to take the case at all or refuse to even look at the substance of the claim, it's about "décider de la recevabilité de la plainte" - nothing more - these "éléments" here are various formal requirements that must be satisfied for a plaintiff to be able to start a legal action, not about any evidence/proofs related to the case itself.
conditions légales = HERE: is the case within the competence of the tribunal (territorial competence, type of cases), has the plaintiff legal capacity (not a minor, of sound mind, properly authorised to act on behalf of an entity etc) has the plaintiff any real/legitimate "cause for action" and similar.
also Proc. Civ. = procédure civile, so it's a dispute about money, not a criminal case.
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Note added at 4 days (2017-05-10 10:39:43 GMT)
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The Four Basic Elements of Negligence
1 Presence of a Duty of Care. The first element is establishing the presence of a duty owed by one person to another. ...
2 Someone Breached Their Duty. The second element is a breach of the duty owed by one person to another. ...
3 The Breach Directly Causes Injuries. ...
4 Proving Monetary Losses.
www.injuryclaimcoach.com/elements-of-negligence.html
A complaint generally has the following structural elements:[2]
Caption and Heading - lists name, address and telephone number of the filing attorney or self-representing litigant at the top of the complaint. The case caption usually also indicates the court in which the case originates, names of the parties and a brief description of the document.
Jurisdiction and venue - this section describes why the case should be heard in the selected court rather than some other court or forum.
Parties - identifies plaintiffs and defendants.
Definitions - optional section which defines some terms used throughout the document. The main purpose of a definition is to achieve clarity without needless repetition.[5]
Statement of facts - lists facts that brought the case to the court.
Cause of Action - a numbered list of legal allegations (called "counts"), with specific details about application of the governing law to each count. In this section the plaintiff usually cites existing Law, previous decisions of the court where the case is being processed, decisions of the higher appellate courts, and cases from other courts, - as an analogy to resolve similar questions of law.
Injury - plaintiff explains to the judge how the actions of the defendant(s) harmed his rights.
Demand for relief - describes the relief that plaintiff is seeking as a result of the lawsuit. The relief can include a request for declaratory judgment, a request for injunctive relief (non-monetary relief), compensatory and actual damages (such as monetary relief), punitive damages (non-compensatory), and other relief.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint
The ST is about the stage when the judge has to examine exactly that kind of [formal] "elements" of the submitted claim!
avoiding false friends is fine, seeing them everywhere is not ...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
B D Finch
: Does anyone use the word "elements" like that in English?// The examples you give don't use the term "elements" in the same sense as "éléments" is used in the French ST.
2 days 20 hrs
|
you mean in legalease or in general English? yes, I've found quite a number of relevant samples.
|
|
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: I would not use "elements": this is legalese not chemistry
6 days
|
Discussion
evidence for éléments - a good chance although I think Nikki's point is relevant. I need to see how many times in this 45 page document it appears...
Il appartient en effet au juge d’examiner si les conditions légales de l’action exercée by le demandeur sont remplies.
Cass. fr. citée. J. Cl. Proc. Civ., Fasc. 152; Principes directeurs du procès, no 49
this is about the stage where the judge has to decide whether to take the case at all or not, it's about "décider de la recevabilité de la plainte" nothing more
conditions légales = like: is the case within the competence of the tribunal (territorial, type of cases), has the plaintiff legal capacity (not a minor, of sound mind, properly authorised to act on behalf of an entity etc) has the plaintiff any real/legitimate "cause for action" and similar.
also Proc. Civ. = procédure civile, so no "juge d'instruction" to be found in this story.
the "éléments" here are various formal requirements that must to be satisfied to be able to start a legal action, not any evidence/proofs related to the case itself.